Episode 072 - Interview with Annette Davey, ACE

The Editor?s Cut – Episode 072 – ?Interview with Annette Davey, ACE?

Annette Davey, ACE:

What happens on set and what you think is good on set doesn’t always translate, weirdly, to what I see, which is I think how most people are going to see it on the screen. So I’ll always start with the circle takes, but then I watch all the rest. I try and react very much intuitively. I think your first reaction is generally your right reaction. Not always, but you know. So I try and really pay attention to that. And I’m really looking for the performance aspects at the beginning.

Sarah Taylor:

Hello and welcome to The Editor’s Cut. I’m your host Sarah Taylor. We would like to point out that the lands on which we have created this podcast and that many of you may be listening to us from are part of ancestral territory. It is important for all of us to deeply acknowledge that we are on ancestral territory that is long served as a place where indigenous peoples have lived, met, and interacted. We honor, respect, and recognize these nations that have never relinquished their rights or sovereign authority over the lands and waters on which we stand today. We encourage you to reflect on the history of the land, the rich culture, the many contributions, and the concerns that impact indigenous individuals and communities. Land acknowledgements are the start to a deeper action.

Today I bring to you an interview with Annette Davey, ACE. We discuss her journey into the cutting room, from assisting in editing at the Australian Broadcast Corporation, to attending film school, and how she managed to find a place in Hollywood all the way from Australia. Annette Davey is now based in LA and New York. She has worked on both TV and film. Annette’s wide selection of TV credits include Maid, Pam and Tommy, Transparent, Better Things, GLOW, and Zoey’s Extraordinary Playlist. Some of her film credits include Waitress, Together Together, Lady of the Manor, and The Estate. Without further ado, I bring you Annette Davey, ACE.

Speaker 1:

And action.

Action.

This is The editor’s Cut.

A CCE podcast.

Exploring.

Exploring.

Exploring the art-

Of picture editing.

Sarah Taylor:

Annette, thank you so much for joining us on The Editor’s Cut today. I’m really excited to learn a little bit about your career and yourself and what drives you as a storyteller. So I think one of the first things I want to start with is how did you get into the world of editing and storytelling?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Thank you so much for having me. It’s a real pleasure to be here. I had a little bit of a circuitous route to editing. I had always loved films as a kid, and I was always very passionate about them. But the city that I grew up in in Australia didn’t really have a big film industry, so it never really occurred to me that I could work in film. So I went to university and I actually studied social work. But while I was there, I realized that was not the career that I wanted, and I started thinking about filmmaking. I thought, well, maybe I could make this work.

So I finished my degree, and I moved to Sydney, sort of all in the hope of getting into the film industry. And when I arrived I went to the unemployment office, as you do, and they said, “What kind of job do you want?” And I said, “Well, I want to work in the film industry.” And normally that would be the end of the conversation and they’d send you out the door because they don’t generally have those jobs. But they were like, “Oh, we have a job in the film industry specifically for women.” And I was like, “Really?”

Anyway, it turned out that the Australian government, bless their heart, someone had set up this grant, and basically the government had agreed to fund 17 women to learn about filmmaking for a period of six months. So we got paid a wage. And for six months we had, I don’t know, different DPs come in, different sound people, editors, post-production people, and teach us kind of all the basics of filmmaking. There was only one position left and I managed to sneak in. So that was great. So I ended up doing the six month course. It was kind of incredible because every day we’d just learn about stuff that we were interested in. We would watch movies, we’d talk about them, we’d dissect them. And then at the end of the six month program, there was also money to make a film.

Sarah Taylor:

It’s like mini film school.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah. It was kind of incredible. So while I was doing that, and this was an all female kind of thing, the teachers were all female as well, the woman who ran the editing side of things took me aside and said, “You know, should really think about doing this as a career. I think you have the right kind of personality and feel like you’ve shown some sort of natural inclination towards it.” She said, “You should really think about it.” And I thought, oh, that’s pretty interesting that someone is encouraging me in that way. And I had really enjoyed the few small exercises that I had edited.

So from there I kind of decided to take it seriously. And actually that woman ended up becoming my mentor for quite a few years after that. And she helped me get my first job as an assistant editor. She also ended up running the editing department at the film school in Australia. I went to the National Film School, the Australian Film and TV School. And so she helped me enormously. So that’s sort of what got me started. It was the job through the unemployment office.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, I have to say, I’ve never heard a journey like that.

Annette Davey, ACE:

It’s pretty unusual.

Sarah Taylor:

It’s really cool. And that the government put on this program. That’s amazing.

Annette Davey, ACE:

And the funny thing was there was 17 women. I don’t really know why they chose that number. It seems a little random to me. And to be honest, most people did not really continue in the film industry. I’d say there was maybe six or seven of us who kind of really moved forward and kept going. But for me it was an incredible opportunity because I already knew that I wanted to work in the film industry. So it was kind of like a dream come true, really. And you got paid.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. That’s brilliant. It’s so cool. So you ended up going to film school, you’re in Australia. Was your first job in the industry in Australia?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Well, my first job was as an assistant editor at what we call the ABC, which I’m sure you probably have a Canadian equivalent. It’s kind of the Australian version of the BBC.

Sarah Taylor:

Oh yeah.

Annette Davey, ACE:

So it’s the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Yeah. So that was my very first job. I assisted on a documentary series that was about South America. It was a 10 part series that they spent a year shooting. So that was a pretty interesting experience. I learned a lot. And actually then I went to film school after that. Because this is sort of strange, but I got pregnant, and I didn’t want to waste my maternity leave on just sitting around. Not that you’re sitting around when you have a baby.

Sarah Taylor:

No. Yes.

Annette Davey, ACE:

That’s very bad of me to say that because it’s not like that at all. But that was my thinking at the time. I was very young. And I thought, well, rather just be home, I’ll go to film school. So I organized it so that I applied for film school, and I was lucky and I got in. And so for my maternity leave, that’s what I did for the first year. And then once I kind of realized that I wanted to continue, I resigned from my job and kept going at film school.

Sarah Taylor:

And then how did you transition from Australia to Hollywood? What was that journey like?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Well, that was also really unexpected. I had got invited to this lunch when I was finishing film school actually by the person who was my mentor. I sort of pretty much finished, but I was at the school using the library, and I was applying for this small award that they gave out to graduates. So I wanted to try and win this award because basically it was a free ticket to anywhere in the world for you to do anything that you liked with. At this time, Australia didn’t really have the Avid as much. We’re about probably 10 years behind in terms of technology. So I thought, wouldn’t it be smart to learn how to use the nonlinear systems before they really came and everybody else learned them. So I was trying to kind of put myself in a situation where I thought I could maybe get work that way as an editor rather than as an assistant. So that was my kind of idea.

And then I was at the school doing some research, and I bumped into my mentor who was head of the editing department. And she said, “Oh, why don’t you come for lunch today? This editor, Gabriella Cristiani, is coming to lunch.” And it turned out that she was Bertolucci’s editor and she’d won an Oscar for editing The Last Emperor. And she’d worked with Antonioni and Fellini and all these incredible filmmakers. So we had lunch. There was only about four of us.

And at some point she said to me, “Oh, why don’t you show me some of your work?” So I was like, “All right.” So I took her down into one of the little editing rooms that we had there, and I showed her a short that I just cut. And she was like, “Oh, there’s something really interesting there.” And anyway, we’ve got along very well. And then I had to drive her into the city. And while I was driving into the city, I thought, oh my gosh?And she was moving to LA. She was moving from London to Los Angeles, and she’d just cut something on a nonlinear system. So she was kind of beginning that transition. And I thought, oh my God, she would be a great person to try and work under.

So I gathered my courage and I said to her, “If I come to LA, would you feel comfortable if I came and did an attachment or as an intern or something?” And she said, “Sure.” And then she wrote me a letter so that I could get the award. And then during that process, we went out for lunch one day, and she said, “Well, why don’t you just come and work with me?” So I was like, “Okay…” I wasn’t really expecting at all. So yes, so I won the award. I couldn’t really work at first because I didn’t have work papers, but I followed her around and went to the cutting room with her, and sort of saw how the system worked. And then I became quite inspired to come back. So then went back to Australia, and kind of sorted out all my situation, and started getting work papers. But it was all because of that chance lunch really.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. It’s amazing how those little opportunities, and also having that courage to be like, you know what? I’m in this spot, I’m going to ask the question. Because if you don’t ask, it’s not going to happen, right?

Annette Davey, ACE:

That’s right. That’s what I kept thinking. I kept thinking, if she gets out of this car, that opportunity’s gone. She’s not going to remember me. In those days, we didn’t really have cell phones that much, or email wasn’t such a big deal. So I thought, how am I going to find her again? It was just this sort of random meeting. So yeah. And I remember I had to really say to myself as I was driving, fortunately it was a long drive, it was a 40 minute drive or something, so I had plenty of time to get my courage up and ask her. And now I’ve learned that people do not mind generally at all if you ask things like that.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, totally. Your career really was you went to LA, and that’s where you really started to get going. Yeah. That’s so cool.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah, I worked a little bit in Australia, but not that much really. I never really sort of planned to do that particularly, but the opportunity arose, and I was like, okay, let me see if I can run with this.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Well that’s amazing. And your long list of credits shows that you made the right decision. That’s amazing.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Well, I hope so.

Sarah Taylor:

Well, I wanted to talk a little bit about Pam and Tommy because that was a big hit and people love it. And I’d just like to hear, how did you get on the show, and was there anything special you did to prepare for the series?

Annette Davey, ACE:

I really got on that show, to be honest, I’ll give my agent a lot of credit for that. He called me and said, “I’ve just been pitching you to Hulu. There’s this incredible series.” And when he told me what it was about, I was like, ooh, because I didn’t really know much about them. And then he said, “Look, read the script.” So he sent me the scripts, and I read them and I discovered all this stuff that I didn’t know, that the tape was stolen and it was not with their permission. I’d always just assumed that they were kind of part of it, to be honest. Because it didn’t make as big a splash in Australia as it probably did here. And also I was younger, so I didn’t really know much about it.

So once I read the scripts, I was like, oh my God, this is really amazing. It’s really fun. But it’s also, to me, it seemed very skewed to Pamela’s point of view and how it affected her, which I found really interesting. I quite like to do things that are a little bit sort of female driven if possible. I like to get the other side of the story out there. So that’s what really kind of appealed to me.

And then I did a meeting on Zoom with six different people. And again, they were all really nice and interesting, and everyone was really kind of enthusiastic about the project. And also everyone involved most of them came from a film background. It was Craig Gillespie directed the first couple of episodes. Seth Rogan was very involved. Everyone was very experienced. And so it just seemed like a great project to get involved with. And it was.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Did you go and watch Barb Wire or any of the previous, or anything from the pop culture?

Annette Davey, ACE:

I did watch some Baywatch and stuff, and I watched a little bit of Barb Wire. But I have to say I thought Lily James was absolutely extraordinary in that transformation.

Sarah Taylor:

Oh, totally. Yeah. It was really cool.

Annette Davey, ACE:

I couldn’t believe it. Normally when I work on a show, I usually call the actors by the actor’s name. I don’t know why. But I generally do probably because it just makes it easier for me. But the whole time I worked on that, I never called her Lily. I only called her Pam. And even now I find it hard to call her Lily. I think, oh no, that’s not Pamela. Sorry.

Sarah Taylor:

That’s amazing.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah. She was so convincing. And she never dropped that kind of role and she never messed up. She really was extraordinary.

Sarah Taylor:

Which helps your job as the editor.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Oh my gosh, yes. Enormously.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Really not easier, but you have more variety, which is great.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah. You don’t have to sort of fix things. So you can choose based on what you think is really amazing, rather than having to fix it first and then go there.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, 100%. What would you say is one of the challenges that you experienced while working on Pam and Tommy?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Pam and Tommy was pretty much a dream job. Like I said, everybody involved was very experienced. They were very enthusiastic. Everyone sort of knew what they wanted to do. Another thing that I found very helpful was that everybody wanted to be really respectful of the real Pamela and not show too much, not be gratuitous about what we showed or anything like that. Sometimes, it wasn’t hard, but we were very mindful of not showing anything that people had never seen before, or really kind of making it seem like we were having fun with it, or poking fun at, or anything like that. So it wasn’t really difficult to do because everybody was so good in the show, but I was very happy that everyone sort of had that same collective feeling about it.

Sarah Taylor:

You touched on saying that you liked that in Pam and Tommy, the focus was more on Pam’s perspective. And I do notice in your previous work with Maid and GLOW and Better Things, all very female focused, female stories, female driven. Obviously that’s something that you are gravitating to in the work you do. With Maid, you were dealing with really heavy material and really tough situations that a lot of people can relate to. How did you go into that, first knowing that the story you’re telling was going to impact a lot of people, and maybe how to protect yourself while you’re working on something like that?

Annette Davey, ACE:

First of all, the scripts for Maid were really fantastic. And I actually do have a little bit of experience in that world myself. I think I mentioned, I studied social work first, so I’ve always kind of been drawn to things that have some sort of social impact or message, or I like do things that have a little bit of something to say. So I was very happy when I read the scripts for Maid. And the other thing that made me very happy was that I felt like the scripts were really sympathetic to that situation. And also they didn’t present Nick, Margaret’s boyfriend, as being the bad guy necessarily. And I was really happy to see that because I think those situations are really complicated and complex, and there’s not just a bad person and a good person. So that was really important for me that the show kind of showcased that.

And also just how hard it is when you find yourself through really no fault of your own in that situation, and changing your life is very difficult. And I was really happy, again, that they showed how kind of crazy all the resources are that you have. They’re not very well thought out. You have to have a job to get a job. You have to have a job to get benefits. How do you get a job without benefits? How do you get babysitting or childcare? I had a very small child when I went to film school, so I used to send him to childcare every day. And even that was quite difficult. And again, I grew up in Australia, the government paid me extra because I had a child. The government paid for us to go to film school. Childcare was really reduced because I was a student. I think I used to pay $20 a week for full-time childcare. So I didn’t really have her experience, but I had some familiarity with that world. So I was really happy to work on something that looked at all those things.

And it was kind of amazing. I had friends actually from Australia reach out to me. I had one friend in particular who works a lot with women in domestic violence shelters. And she was like, “Oh my God, can we talk to the show creator because we’d love to do an interview with her,” and all these things. I got a lot of requests for stuff like that. And I know that Molly and John spoke to a lot of different people, and it really generated a lot of talk about all those issues, which I thought was great.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, I think it’s really important. Now we’re going to jump to GLOW because female wrestling, everything about it felt like it was just so glamorous. It was really upsetting that they didn’t get renewed.

Annette Davey, ACE:

I know.

Sarah Taylor:

It was very upsetting, but going into maybe the specifics of cutting a wrestling sequence. Was that something that did you watch wrestling as a kid, or did you have to-

Annette Davey, ACE:

I did, weirdly enough.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah? Perfect!

Annette Davey, ACE:

I mean, not intentionally, but when I grew up, again, Australia’s a little bit behind in terms of technology, and I do seem to remember that there used to be wrestling on the TV. Maybe it was Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon or something. I don’t remember it very well at all. But I do remember watching it, and my father telling me it was all fake, and being sort of slightly fascinated by it all because it was just so bizarre. But I didn’t watch it, obviously, with thinking I would work on something that had wrestling in it.

And I guess I just approached it like I sort of approach most things. I just tried to find the right balance of humor and drama, so you could tell that story. I wanted it to be very powerful if possible. So I was really trying to go for that a lot. And the thing I also really liked about GLOW is that even though it was funny, and it was all those things about women in silly outfits and wrestling, and it had a very feminist perspective behind it all. Which again, some of the speeches or the arguments that the women had, especially between Betty and the lead, Alison, I thought they were incredible. So it was really good to have that play of the fun stuff. And then these, I thought, really strong messages, but they were not delivered as kind of messages.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, totally. I think I’ve always sort of felt inspired and empowered when I watched the show. So yeah, I think that those messages came across.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Good. I remember there was one episode in particular, I didn’t remember what number it is, sorry, and I remember there was this incredible speech between Alison and Betty. And it was all about, ?how do you decide what you’re going to do as a woman, and what’s appropriate and what’s okay?? And I just thought that was amazing. And both the actors did a fantastic job of delivering those words. So it was really nice to have that balance.

Sarah Taylor:

For sure. And then with Better Things, it’s such a different tone and different style of show. And I’m just curious too of, okay, what were the scripts like for Better Things? Was there a lot of improv? I feel like it feels like there would be room for that. And how did you approach that in your editing?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yes, there was quite a bit of improv, but we didn’t always use it. I mean, the whole thing about Better Things is it’s very much Pamela’s life, her struggle. So the scripts were kind of very tight, but she was pretty open to improv. But it was all about servicing the story really. So she’d let people do it, but we wouldn’t always use. I generally when I’m editing, especially the first pass, I try and put in any little gems of improv that I find just because I want the creator to see them because otherwise they might not know that they really exist. So I try and put a lot of that in just so, like I said, so they can see it. And I would say 50% of the time we maybe kept them, 50% not.

But I really enjoyed working on that show. We had a lot of fun. Everyone was really fun and enthusiastic, and Pamela’s really fun to work with. And she’s a real character and she likes to jump from room to room, and she made it very inspiring. And you know I thought, again, it had some really nice messages. Gosh, it sounds like I only work on things with messages.

Sarah Taylor:

That’s great though. Because then you’re feeling inspired when you’re working too, right?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it’s really great when you can work on something that does reflect what you believe in.

Sarah Taylor:

100%. Yeah, I agree. I’d love to talk about your workflow. You mentioned you read the scripts obviously. So what is your process typically when you get on a series? We’ll talk about series, and then I’d love to hear about your film workflow as well, if it’s any different.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Right. They’re not wildly different. But I would say on TV I tend to, because on TV you have a pretty strict schedule. So if it’s a half hour or something, it will be usually a five or six day shoot. As the editor, you get something like two days after the dailies come in. Sometimes it’s not after dailies come in, sometimes it’s two days including the last day of dailies. And then you have to turn the show in. And like all things these days it has to be fully scored and sound design, and maybe some temp visual effects. Everything has to be pretty polished. It doesn’t have to be perfect. So that’s a lot of work.

So one thing I do, do when I cut TV is I tend to assemble it fairly quickly because I want to keep up with camera all the time, and I like to save room at the end of the process so I can string it all together, look at transitions, really think about the whole. Because you know how it is, you’re cutting everything out of order. You might be cutting the last scene before you’ve even seen the first scene. So obviously once you put it all together, it influences how you feel about all those things. So I like to allow time to go back and recut everything and think about the whole rather than just the individual pieces.

Sarah Taylor:

Do you have an assistant that you like to work with that you bring from project to project? Or how do you connect with your assistants?

Annette Davey, ACE:

I try. I have a couple of assistants that I really like and I’ve worked with on multiple shows, but they’re generally so good they get swept up very quickly. So when I did Maid, I had an assistant called John Mullin, who I really love working with, and he’s a fantastic assistant and also a wonderful editor as well. So I was very fortunate that I got him to actually carry over from Maid to Pam and Tommy because they started right after each other. So when you can do that, that’s really good because you don’t have to have that horrible moment of trying to find someone. Because it’s really good if you do get to know each other a bit more and they know what you like and you don’t have to double check things as much. So where possible I try and bring someone I know and have worked with before. But sometimes you have to find someone new. And that’s also fun too, because you might discover another person that brings something different than what you were used to.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. When you are looking at your dailies and your script notes and stuff, what are you looking for? Are you going by your gut? Are you looking at circle takes? What is your kind of process when it comes to just that as initial assembly?

Annette Davey, ACE:

I probably watch circle takes first, but I do watch all takes because I find that what happens on set and what you think is good on set doesn’t always translate, weirdly, to what I see, which is I think how most people are going to see it on the screen. There’s something about being there live on set that’s different. So I’ll always start with the circle takes, but then I watch all the rest. And I try and react very much intuitively. I think your first reaction is generally your right reaction. Not always, but you know. So I try and really pay attention to that. And obviously I look at the notes and all that. And I’m really looking for the performance aspects at the beginning, I’m really thinking about the story and what’s the best way to tell that and things like that.

Sarah Taylor:

When you’re working on series work, since it’s often like, you’ll be alternate episodes or there’s other editors on the team, do you communicate with your other editors? Are you watching their cuts? What is that like, with the team of editors?

Annette Davey, ACE:

It’s different every time depending on who you are working with. But actually on Maid we did quite a lot of that. Even though we’re all working remotely, we often looked at each other’s cuts and gave feedback. And I enjoy it when you can do that, but you don’t always have time to be sitting around and-

Sarah Taylor:

Watching.

Annette Davey, ACE:

… watching each other’s cuts because you’re trying to get your own ready. But yes, I do enjoy it when you can. And like I said, on Maid, we had a very good situation like that. I don’t know that we had any more time than normal, but because it was one of the early things that was shot during the pandemic, they had a lot of restrictions in terms of quarantine. So sometimes that would give us in editorial a little bit of extra time because maybe the actor wasn’t available straight away, so sometimes they would shoot something else. So that did give us a tiny bit more space.

Sarah Taylor:

I spoke to the editors that did Ghostbusters: Afterlife, and they had a long hiatus because of COVID. And so they had this time away. Is more time helpful? Or in some cases as creatives, we’re like, oh, we got more time, and we don’t go as quickly maybe. That deadline is helpful.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah, it’s a interesting question because I do think a lot of the time we’re sort of racing to get things done, which I has a certain kind of appeal to it in some ways because it forces you to make decisions quite quickly. Which sometimes when you’re forced to do something quickly, and just really reacting with your gut more than anything else, that can be very good. But there is also that thing of having more time when you can refine things and think about it more deeply.

And then there’s also the value of having a little break, which doesn’t happen very often. But I find, especially on movies, if you can take for, say for instance your schedule falls over Christmas, so you generally have a break over Christmas. Often when you come back, you look at things and you go, oh my God, why did I leave all that there? It’s way too long, it’s slowing things down. And you come back with a really fresh perspective. So that’s also really helpful. So I guess you just have to juggle it depending on the situation really.

Sarah Taylor:

Do you have any techniques that you use to give yourself a different way of looking at it? I know some people will look at another screen, or they’ll like watch it without sound. Do you do anything like that to-

Annette Davey, ACE:

I do all of those things actually.

Sarah Taylor:

It’s helpful.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah, my very first job as an assistant editor, I don’t really recall why, but the director on the series that I worked on was a great believer in watching things without sound. He believed you could really tell if the cuts worked better because you weren’t being distracted. Because we do use sound a lot to kind of complete a cut or something like that. So he was a great believer in that. And he also liked to watch them in fast forward as well. I don’t really subscribe to the fast forward quite as much, but I do often watch things without sound.

I generally like to watch them on a different screen. Before we used to work at home, I would often take the cut homes so I could watch it in my living room because, again, there’s something about being in a different space that makes it feel different. And then I also like to, if I have someone around that I can drag into the editing room that I trust, I quite like to watch it with someone else because you can feel when they’re getting bored, when they’re shuffling. So yes, I use all of those-

Sarah Taylor:

All those tricks.

Annette Davey, ACE:

… things where possible.

Sarah Taylor:

In your experience, have you been involved in any of focus screenings or test screenings and being in the room watching, and how does that work for you?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah, I mean I actually like to go to those screenings, even though it’s a little bit torturous for me because I’m so nervous and I’m worried about what if something goes wrong or it doesn’t sound right. And a lot of the time you haven’t had a ton of time to check the theater or wherever it is. So you’re a little bit anxious at the beginning. But no, I find it really helpful, especially if you’re doing a comedy or something like that because you get to hear where people laugh. And a lot of the times they’ll laugh at things that you had no idea they were going to laugh at, and then they won’t laugh at things that you think are really funny that were written into the script as a laugh. So I find it really helpful.

Actually, when I did the series Transparent, we used to have screenings all the time. And what they would do is they would usually screen maybe three episodes in a block to an audience, a very small audience, maybe 20 people or something. And that was really interesting. I’d never done that before on a TV series. And a lot of the times we would move scenes around from episode to episode based on those screenings. And then also Jill in particular liked to ask people, because it was a fairly sort of one of the first shows about that subject matter, she wanted to make sure that everybody understood what was happening and make sure nothing was confusing or sending the wrong ideas. So that was also really helpful too.

Sarah Taylor:

Another great show with a great message that you worked on.

Annette Davey, ACE:

That’s right. There you go.

Sarah Taylor:

I also love Transparent.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yes. That was a really fun show.

Sarah Taylor:

What has been one of the biggest things that you’ve experienced in your career that kind of, I don’t know, taught you, helped you grow?

Annette Davey, ACE:

I guess probably the first time I cut a feature, I was very worried about it. In Australia, we have a lot more hurdles that you need to go through in order to cut a feature. For instance, it’s very unlikely that you would get to cut a feature unless you’d cut a bunch of shorts that had probably been well known and done well. Whereas I find in America, that’s not so much the case. Pretty much if you say you can do it, people believe you can, which has lots of great benefits.

Sarah Taylor:

But really nerve wracking.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah. So the first feature that I cut was when I first went to America. And I hadn’t cut a feature before. I’d cut a feature documentary, I’d cut a bunch of shorts, I’d cut lots of documentaries, lots of TV stuff, but not a feature. So that was very nerve wracking. But I sort of learnt, and maybe this is wrong, I don’t know, but in some ways it wasn’t really any different than cutting a short film in a sense. It was just a much longer story. But it was still the same kind of skills. So that was very good.

Sarah Taylor:

So it took-

Annette Davey, ACE:

It made me feel a lot better.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Alleviated some of the stress.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah. It wasn’t like some magical thing that there was special sort of tricks that I needed to do.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s good for people to hear. I think when you first start any project, especially longform work, you have this mountain, this large script, this mountain of footage. And you’re like, what am I going to do? How is this going to ever end?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Exactly. But the other thing too is that, even though it’s a long script, it comes to you in the same way. You get scene by scene. So I just especially at the beginning would mostly approach it scene by scene. And then put it all together and go back again and obviously rework it. But I wouldn’t sort of let myself worry too much about the 50 scenes ahead of me.

Sarah Taylor:

Exactly, exactly. I guess that is the best. Yeah, that’s what I used to. I’ve done a few sketch comedy and comedy series, and getting just that little three minute scene. You’re like, I can accomplish this morning, it’s fine.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Exactly, yeah. Then you sort of feel inspired, and okay, I’m getting somewhere, and you just keep going.

Sarah Taylor:

Exactly. Keep on going. So you mentioned early on you had a mentor, somebody took you under their wing. So were there other mentors along the way that shaped you, and then are you now mentoring others?

Annette Davey, ACE:

I do try and mentor other people. Actually, I’ve been mentoring this young English director actually. Her name is Faith Downey. I met her through, what’s it called, Cinema Femme. I think they asked me if I would like to be a mentor. I believe in it, so I said yes. So I try, and she sends me cuts and scripts, and I give her feedback and whatever advice I think might be helpful. Coming from Australia, there’s a bunch of young Australian filmmakers who are female that I’ve gotten to know and who often come to the States, and I might meet them at an event, or maybe they’ll look me up. The film industry is small in Australia, so we all tend to know one another. So I try and help them as well, and just give them advice and just give them some benefit of my experience really.

But yes, I’ve been very fortunate. I had two really significant mentors. One was the one I told you about who helped me get into film school and all that sort of stuff. Her name was Rhonda MacGregor. And then the second one was the Italian editor, Gabriella Cristiani. And not only did I work for her as an intern when I first came, I ended up?I didn’t really assist her, I was sort of more her associate editor, so she would get me to cut scenes, and I would help her out. And I learned an awful lot from her because she was incredible.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. I think being able to be in the room with someone is such a great way to learn. And I find-

Annette Davey, ACE:

Oh my gosh, yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

… now I feel like the younger people coming into the industry, or new people coming into the industry with the way technology is, we’re often not in the same space anymore.

Annette Davey, ACE:

That’s right. And it’s also I feel like the jobs have gotten to be a little bit more different too. You know, they’re having to import all the material and deal with all the sort of technical aspects of things. Whereas somehow in film, I guess it wasn’t quite like that so much. Like, I remember one of the first things I worked on with that editor, I don’t even know if I was able to work at this point, but anyway, she invited me to the cutting room one day, and she was cutting on film because she didn’t really like the non-linear system as much.

And she’d spent 20 years so she could do it without thinking. And I’ll never forget, she did this incredible thing where she had the assistants make what? they used to call a chem roll. And so basically it’s all the takes one after another, just all on a reel, so you can watch them all together without stopping. And she went through with her white pencil, and put in and out marks on everything. And then she walked away, and said, “Okay, just join that together.” And so the assistant joined all that together, and then she screened the scene for us and it was almost perfect.

Sarah Taylor:

Wow.

Annette Davey, ACE:

That was pretty amazing. I’d never obviously seen anyone do that before. And I think that’s coming from a film background because you have to know in your mind what you want to do before you start chopping into it.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, yeah. There’s no undo button.

Annette Davey, ACE:

No. And also, I’m sure you know, the film starts to look crappy if there’s too many splices and then it jumps. So it’s hard to really judge is it a good cut or a bad cut when it’s jumping around in the gate and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, that was pretty extraordinary.

Sarah Taylor:

Wow. To even just try that as an experiment in a non-linear system, and be like, okay, here’s my in and outs. That’s it. Put it down and see what happens. That’s a good little exercise to try. I like it.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah. No, I mean it was really extraordinary.

Sarah Taylor:

Well so you’ve seen the industry’s technology change from obviously seeing somebody cut film.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Enormously, yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. So how did you keep up? What did you do? Is that just the way your brain is?

Annette Davey, ACE:

I’m fortunate in that I quite like computers, and it was never hard for me to… And I started when? you know in Australia when I started, film was still kind of around, but it was leaving. So like I said, I made it a real thing to become comfortable with the technology very early on. So I really worked hard to always make sure that I knew the latest systems and what was happening. Not because I think it really matters that much. If you cut on Premiere or Avid, you’re still doing the same kind of thing. But I just wanted to make sure I could have that knowledge so that if someone said to me, “Can you cut this on Premiere?” I could say, “Sure.” And I didn’t have to fumble around and learn it.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, yeah. That’s a great way to approach it. There’s always been the camps, the Final Cut Pro camp, the Avid camp, the Premiere camp.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Exactly. Yeah. Nowadays I’m a tiny bit more resistant to learning a new system just because I probably learnt six or seven along the way. And at the end of the day, you’re sort of doing the same thing. It’s really what’s in your mind that’s important rather than is it this button or this lever or whatever. So I hope there’s not a major-

Sarah Taylor:

I agree.

Annette Davey, ACE:

… reworking again of another system. I feel like I’ve gone through quite a lot already.

Sarah Taylor:

There is something to be said about doing the system that you’re most familiar with because it is the second language, and you don’t have to think in that part of your brain.

Annette Davey, ACE:

You don’t think about it.

Sarah Taylor:

You just do it.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Exactly.

Sarah Taylor:

Which is the best.

Annette Davey, ACE:

That’s what great. Yeah, you’re not thinking how do I do it? You’re just thinking, oh yeah, this is what I want to do.

Sarah Taylor:

And then you do it.

Annette Davey, ACE:

And off you go.

Sarah Taylor:

That’s the best part.

Annette Davey, ACE:

So yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

What’s the one thing that you need, or maybe a few things that you need, in your edit suite to keep yourself in the creative flow, or not to feel like things are overwhelming? What is your must have?

Annette Davey, ACE:

That’s really interesting. I actually don’t know that I have a ?must have?. I do like to have a certain amount of space, and I do like to have four screens, but that’s just because I like to have one off to the side that’s very large so that I can sit back and watch it on a sofa that’s further away so I can get that slight distance. And then I like to have one that’s just sort of a regular monitor on the desk so I don’t have to move too far.

And I guess I like to have good speakers. And I also like to have not just speakers for me, but speakers for the large monitor as well because I want everybody to hear it properly. But I don’t have any great thing. I’m not super fussy. I like to just jump in, to be honest. And I don’t really get intimidated by mountains of material. I remember once I cut, one of the first TV series I worked on was a series called Hung for HBO.

Sarah Taylor:

Oh, I remember that one.

Annette Davey, ACE:

And I remember my first episode, there was a basketball match in it. And I remember the director gave me something like 22 hours worth of footage. I mean, it was on different cameras-

Sarah Taylor:

That’s a lot.

Annette Davey, ACE:

… so it added up to 22. And I only had the two days after I got the dailies to finish everything. And that was very hard because I felt like I was racing to get through it all so I could look at it so I wasn’t missing anything. But I also had this clock ticking in the back of my head going like, hey, this has got to all be done very soon. Fortunately it turned out very well, so everyone was very happy. But that’s one of the few times I felt really sort of under the gun in terms of time.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, totally. That makes sense. Just all that material. Do you find now in the series that you work on, is it usually two cameras, more than two cameras? What are you normally working with?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah, I mean a lot of the time it is two cameras. Sometimes it’s more if it’s a big action scene or something. I like having two cameras actually. The other thing that happens a lot now is they do the block shooting. I’m not a huge fan of that just because I find, for me, I don’t love juggling two episodes at the same time. It’s fine. I can do it no problem. But when scenes come in, you’re like, oh, that’s in episode 106 or something. So you have to put aside 105, which your brain has really been into, and go over to here…

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, totally.

Annette Davey, ACE:

So I can do it and it’s no problem. But I do have those few moments where I’m like, oh, okay.

Sarah Taylor:

I got to rewire something.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah. Got to sort of reboot a little bit, you know?

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, totally. I think block shooting must be hard for actors as well.

Annette Davey, ACE:

That’s what I think too. Flopping between one episode to another for your performance. I imagine that’s quite difficult.

Sarah Taylor:

In Maid, I found the lead actress, oh, I’m going to call her Alex, because that’s who I know her as, her character.

Annette Davey, ACE:

I know. I just call her Margaret. Sorry.

Sarah Taylor:

That’s okay. I felt like she had such a beautiful performance. I know that editing helps a lot with performance as well. But her reactions, the way reaction shots were used, and just her reactions to what was happening. Was she one of those people that you’re like, ?Wow, I have a lot to work with.? And it was really?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah, she was amazing. And she also I think has one of those sort of actor’s faces where she has a quality where even if she’s not speaking, you’ll kind of read a lot of what’s happening on her face. So it was sort of a combination of both. She gave really good stuff. But then she also, I think, has that quality, which I find a lot of really good actors have that, you know. You just look at them and you can project all kinds of things onto what’s going on inside them internally. And another thing that Margaret did that I think was really helpful was she spent a lot of time with the child. From what I understand, I think they used to go out for ice cream every Sunday?

Sarah Taylor:

Oh, that’s so cute.

Annette Davey, ACE:

… on their day off. So that I think really helped too, in terms of both their performances. They felt really comfortable with each other, and I think that was a really strong choice of her to have made. Very successful.

Sarah Taylor:

How do you find working with child actors in the edit room?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Well, generally they’re not difficult, but they’re more challenging maybe is a better way to put it. Just because they’re young, they don’t really understand. And I can’t remember how old the real child was, but she was actually very good really. But I do really think that Margaret’s approach really helped with their relationship. And I would suggest most people try and do something like that. So it’s really just that they’re sort of young, and they don’t always have the same emotional depth that you’re used to with older actors. So you just have to be flexible and really sort of? because they may not say the lines properly, or they might fluff things a little bit. And I think you just have to be flexible and really try and just mine the moments that work emotionally, and not get too hung up on things being perfect.

Sarah Taylor:

We’ve talked a lot about the things that you work on and that you do in the edit room. What are the things you like to watch for fun for you?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Oh my goodness. I am a total sucker for period dramas. I would love to work on more stuff like that. And I really quite sort of dark, dramatic sort of stuff, which is funny because I do a lot of comedies. But I think that’s sort of the Australian in me. We have a pretty funny sense of humor, so I’m always down for a good laugh.

Sarah Taylor:

I love it. What is coming up next for you?

Annette Davey, ACE:

I’m really not quite sure. This is the first time… I worked nonstop through the pandemic, I pretty much haven’t had any kind of break for three or four years. So I just took a vacation, which the first vacation I’ve had in four years. And I really took a vacation. I went to Southeast Asia and I went to islands and swimming, and all that sort of stuff. So I’m just figuring out what’s going to be next. I’ve got a couple of options, but I don’t want to talk about them just yet in case. I have to say, I would thoroughly recommend a vacation. I don’t normally do them much because I like to work. And so I get a bit greedy, and I think, oh yeah, I’d love to do that, so I won’t take any time off. But having just had a few weeks off, it’s really good for you.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, that’s a good tip, I think, to give people in our industry. Because I feel like we’re fortunate to get to do work that we love. And so it’s hard to sometimes say no and turn down something.

Annette Davey, ACE:

That’s right. And it’s generally not that bad to turn something down. It’s usually not as scary as you think. But I struggle with that a lot. I love to work, and I like to be busy. And I’m always like, oh yeah, I can do that. And the only reason I took a break was because it was a friend of mine’s birthday, and he’d organized this vacation for there was 12 of us that came from different parts of the world. So I bought my ticket eight months before, not really knowing if I could even go. So that was a good way to go on vacation because it kind of forced me to go.

Sarah Taylor:

So the next few years, you block down some time, buy a ticket, and you have to leave.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Because otherwise you won’t do it.

Sarah Taylor:

I’m the same way. I have a young daughter, so now I have her school days off blocked in my calendar so I can be like, okay, once a year, this is?

Annette Davey, ACE:

I’m not working.

Sarah Taylor: 

… we’re not working. We’re going to do fun stuff.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Because it’s very hard.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, it’s very hard.

Annette Davey, ACE:

No, no, absolutely. I struggle with it all the time. I’d rather be working than not. But I do think it’s very healthy for you psychologically to get away from it for while.

Sarah Taylor:

100%. I totally agree. Is there any other advice you want to share as someone who’s been in the industry and done a wide variety of work, that maybe for somebody that’s just starting or maybe mid-career?

Annette Davey, ACE:

Yeah, I think the main advice would be don’t give up, just keep persisting. Because you never know what’s around the corner. And sometimes things are difficult and they’re hard, and maybe you don’t feel as satisfied with what you’ve worked on. You are struggling to work in a different sort of situation, but just keep going. Because it can change. As we talked about, you can be sitting in a car with someone, and ask questions too.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Be curious. That’s great. Well, thank you for sharing so much great wisdom. Everybody go to the IMDB, and look at Annette Davey’s list, and then just all the things. Because I feel like you’ve touched everything that’s great. So yes, go and binge watch it all. Thanks so much for joining us today.

Annette Davey, ACE:

Thank you so much.

Sarah Taylor:

Thanks so much for joining us today, and a big thank you goes to Annette for taking the time to sit with me. A special thanks goes to Kim McTaggart CCE and Alison Dowler. The main title sound design was created by Jane Tattersall. Additional ADR recording by Andrea Rusch. Original music created by Chad Blain and Soundstripe. This episode was mixed and mastered by Tony Bao. The CCE is proud to support HireBIPOC. HireBIPOC is the definitive and ubiquitous industry-wide roster of Canadian BIPOC creatives and crew working in screen-based industries. Check out hirebipoc.ca to hire your next group or create a profile and get hired.

Speaker 4:

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