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The Editors Cut

Episode 069: Editors Across Canada

The Editors Cut - Episode 069 - Editing Across Canada

Episode 069 - Editing Across Canada

Today's episode is a conversation with Editors Across Canada that took place virtually November 2nd, 2021.

This episode was generously sponsored by IATSE 891. 

Annie Ilkow, CCE (GHOSTS) from Quebec, Jeremy Harty, CCE (TRAILER PARK BOYS) from Nova Scotia, Lisa Binkley, CCE (ZOMBIES 3) from British Columbia, Roderick Deogrades, CCE (CHAPELWAITE) from Ontario and Sarah Taylor (THE LAST BARON) from Alberta talk about their process and how it can be different (or similar) based on where they live.

Annie Ilkow

Annie Ilkow is a Montreal-based editor whose recent work includes Ghosts (CBS, single-camera comedy), TRANSPLANT (2 seasons, for NBC/CTV), and BLOOD & TREASURE (2 seasons, CBS action-adventure). She also edited the critically-acclaimed drama 19-2, the seminal DURHAM COUNTY. A graduate of the film program at Concordia University, she earned her MFA in Cinema at the University of East Anglia, UK.

Jeremy Harty, CCE

Born in BC, Raised in NS, calls Halifax home since 1998. Met Mike Clattenburg and edited his low budget feature TRAILER PARK BOYS in 1999. Since then has been doing anything TRAILER PARK BOYS related. Started editing things with Cory Bowles whenever our schedules allowed. Married with three kids and owns and operates Digiboyz Inc. (Post Production) since 2001.

Lisa Binkley, CCE

Award winning film and television editor Lisa Binkley began her career in post-production after having studied theatre and film production at U.B.C. She graduated from the Media Resources Program at Capilano University. Since then she has worked on numerous feature films, MOWs and television series. Her work was recognized when she received a Gemini Award (CSA) for her editing of the mini-series, HUMAN CARGO. This Canadian/South African co-production was directed by Brad Turner (HOMELAND & 24) and it received 17 Gemini Nominations and also won a Peabody Award. Her work on MGM?s critically acclaimed science fiction series, THE OUTER LIMITS and Showtime?s, THE L WORD (Written and produced by by Ilene Chaiken) has given Lisa the opportunity to work with such directors as Marlee Gorris (Academy Award Winner ? ANTONIA?S LINE), Moises Kaufman (THE LARAMIE PROJECT), Helen Shaver (VIKINGS), Lynne Stopkewich (KISSED), and Kimberley Peirce (BOYS DON?T CRY). She is currently working on ZOMBIES 3 for Disney+, directed by Paul Hoen. Lisa is a full member of IATSE 891, ACFC West and is a voting member of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences. In 2008, she was inducted as a full member into the Canadian Cinema Editors (CCE) honourary society.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE

Roderick is an award-winning Picture and Sound Editor who has worked in the film industry for over twenty years. His extensive knowledge of both sides of the post equation has proven invaluable. His experience in feature films, TV series, shorts and documentaries has established him as one of the industry?s most sought-after collaborators. On the picture side, he is known for his work on STILL MINE (2012), VICTORIA DAY (2009) and ONE WEEK (2008). For television, he has edited THE EXPANSE (Season 3 to 6), KILLJOYS (Season 4 & 5), and Chapelwaite (2021). He picture edited acclaimed documentaries such as 100 FILMS & A FUNERAL (2007), THE GHOSTS IN OUR MACHINE (2013), DAVID & ME (2014) and SILAS (2017). His sound editing work includes SPLICE (2009), PASSCHENDAELE (2008) and SILENT HILL (2006). He is currently picture editing the series BILLY THE KID.

Sarah

Sarah Taylor

Sarah Taylor is a multi-award-winning editor with twenty years of experience. She has cut a wide range of documentaries, television programs, shorts, and feature films. Sarah strives to help shape unique stories from unheard voices. She is a member of the Directors Guild of Canada (DGC) and the host of of the Canadian Cinema Editors (CCE) podcast The Editor?s Cut. Sarah is also the co-host of the podcast Braaains.

 
 
This episode was generously sponsored by IATSE 891.
 

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The Editor?s Cut – Episode 069 – ?Editors Across Canada?

Sarah Taylor:
This episode was generously sponsored by IATSE 891.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Saying no sometimes can be a good? and it’s taken me a long time to learn that. And I think if more of us do that, I think it might be a better working conditions for everybody. So, does this really have to go out tonight? Does it really? Or can this wait till tomorrow?

Sarah Taylor:
Hello, and welcome to the Editor’s Cut. I’m your host, Sarah Taylor. We would like to point out that the lands on which we have created this podcast, and that many of you may be listening to us from, are part of ancestral territory. It is important for all of us to deeply acknowledge that we are on ancestral territory that has long served as a place where indigenous peoples have lived, met, and interacted. We honor, respect, and recognize these nations that have never relinquished their rights or sovereign authority over the lands and waters on which we stand today. We encourage you to reflect on the history of the land, the rich culture, the many contributions, and the concerns that impact indigenous individuals and communities. Land acknowledgements are the start to a deeper action.
Today I bring to you the virtual event that took place on November 2nd, 2021, a conversation with editors across Canada. We’re joined by Annie Ilkow, CCE from Quebec, Jeremy Harty, CCE from Nova Scotia, Lisa Binkley, CCE from British Columbia, Roderick Deogrades, CCE from Ontario, and myself, Sarah Taylor from Alberta. We talk about our process and how things are different and the same, based on where we live.

[show open]

Sarah Taylor:
Today, we are going to be talking about editing across Canada. So, I’m pleased to be joined with Lisa, Annie, Jeremy, and Roderick. So to start, I just wanted to go through the group and kind of give a brief history of our careers and, where we’re from, where we started, and how we got to the location we’re at now. I figured just to get the ball rolling, I’ll start. I’m Sarah Taylor and I’m based in Edmonton. And I’m wearing my, still in Edmonton shirt because I’m still in Edmonton. I went to Grant MacEwen, which was a local college, now university. Took a digital arts and media program, which was kind of a generalist program. We learned graphic design, photography, shooting, editing. And then I fell in love with editing, realized that I could sit in a dark room for hours and hours on end by myself, and I really liked it, so I pursued it.
I had the privilege of working at a local TV station for about four years where I got to work with seasoned editors, which I think is kind of a novelty now. I feel like that’s not happening as often. So, I was lucky to learn from some pros, which really gave me a good learning ground. And then I dabbled in some corporate video production houses for a while, and then I broke it into the freelance world in 2012. And that’s where I’ve been ever since. And my main focus has been documentary, because documentary’s quite strong in Edmonton, but I have been lucky enough to do a bit of everything. So, I’ve done some scripted comedy, I’ve done some feature films, I’ve done a lot of short films. And I love living where I’m living, and I have a family and it’s great for me. So, that’s my start and where I am now. So, I’m going to pass it on to Lisa.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
My name’s Lisa Binkley, and I’m based out of Vancouver, British Columbia. I went to UBC for two years, and I took theater. And as part of the theater program, I took a film history course. And it was by a woman who was an incredible teacher of film history, and she totally opened up my eyes to the fact that, oh my God, you can actually earn a living and work in this industry in Vancouver. And it was back in the early days. I’m embarrassed to say it’s quite a few years ago when the film industry was just sort of starting here. So, I went to school for two years at UBC, and then I went to two years to a media resources program at CAP College in North Van. And that was great because it was everything. It was photography, audio, video, film, editing, everything, and graduated from that. And a couple of people from that program had gone on into editing. And through the film history course that I took, I realized the people who I most admired and the films that really impacted me as a young person, I studied who those filmmakers were, and they were at one point editors. So I thought, I’m going to go into editing. That’s what I’m going to do. And I did. And so I harassed every editor in town after I got out of school until one assistant finally called me back and asked me to come down. And I worked as a PA at first. And since then, worked my way up. I went from production assistant running around getting lunches for everybody on a show called MacGyver. And I just worked my way up as a second assistant, first assistant, and then begged and begged and begged to get episodes to cut, and got an episode, got a couple more episodes, and then finally made the jump, which is very difficult from assisting to editing. And I’ve done editing full-time since ’95.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s awesome. Jeremy!

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
My name is Jeremy Harty. I started out in radio and television broadcasting, of course, in Nova Scotia, and that’s where I am right now, in Halifax. And that was in ’98. I got lucky with an internship at a small post-production company in the city, and that turned into a full-time job. And from that, I met some people. I got connected with Mike Clattenburg, the creator of Trailer Park Boys, and that pretty much started my career and doing short films with some of the cast from the show over the years, like Cory Bowles. And then he did a feature film. And I’ve done all sorts of weird stuff like that. But I’ve been mostly Trailer Park and comedy, and that’s my bread and butter. Not too exciting, but?and I own a small post production facility out here just to try to keep myself busy on different facets besides just editing.

Sarah Taylor:
I think it’s pretty exciting. I’m just going to say, comedy in the edit suite’s the best.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Oh yeah, there’s lots of good pranks.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, I bet. Annie.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Well, I grew up in Montreal. I’m one of those Anglo-Montrealers, that small slice of the population. And I went to Concordia University. I did two degrees. Actually, I have third degree burn? I did a BA in English and a BA in film production, and then I did an MFA in England in film. I was lucky enough to come into the NFB in Montreal at the tail end of some of the careers of some of the pioneers of the sixties, so Wolf Koenig and those crew who gave me my start as an editor. So, I started cutting documentaries, and then I have moved on to doing… Well, one of the nice things about Montreal is that it’s a very small pond, and so we’re lucky enough that we get to do a lot of different things. Not a lot of editors in the industry get to do doc and fiction and comedy and move between those throughout our career, so I’ve been lucky enough to do that. My husband’s also an editor, and we’ve been working consistently for the last 25 years, and that’s where I’m at.

Sarah Taylor:
It?s really cool to hear that in Quebec that I wouldn?t think that you would have the luxury to jump between genres cuz that?s what it?s like for me in Alberta. And I am surprised to hear that. That?s really great!

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah, I think it?s because it?s a small community of Anglo editors. That, we?you know, there is not that many of us. So we get to move between the genres. And it?s a real privilege for sure. I know how lucky I am.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, awesome. And last but not least, Roderick.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
So, I’m based out of Toronto, Ontario. Roderick Deogrades. Hello everybody. Welcome. I guess ever since high school, I knew I wanted to be in film. I just didn’t know how or what I was going to do. So, I pursued that. I tried to get into Ryerson. I didn’t make it into Ryerson’s cut. It was funny because they asked for like? an eight by ten envelope of submitting anything that you have. So, I came with my little envelope, and everybody came with boxes and reels and stuff, so I knew I didn’t have a chance. (deleted) So another university I applied for, I got in was University of Windsor. I thought I’ll go there for a year, and then go back to Ryerson. But I discovered fairly quickly that Windsor’s program was quite great. It was a communications studies program. And you start off by doing everything from film, TV, radio, advertising. And then your second year, you can focus on whatever you wanted to.
So, that’s what I did, and I focused on film and television production. And at the same time, I found a little bit of a loophole where instead of taking my electives, I can do another double major. So, I double majored in dramatic arts. So while I was doing film and TV, I was doing directing, acting, improv, costume design, stage lighting. It was a blast. I had such a great time at university. Got out of there, and I knew that I loved editing and I loved camera, so I didn’t know which way I was going to go. So, I kind of said to myself, the first one that hires me, that’s the road I’m going to go down. And I got a trainee assistant position at a low budget feature film, and it just snowballed from there for me. I took a little bit of a side tandem, almost like with the film and TV and dramatic arts. As I was trying to pursue picture editing through assisting and everything, I got connected with Jane Tattersall here in Toronto and I started assisting her in sound, ’cause I figured, oh? half of picture editing is sound editing, so I’ll learn that too. But fairly quickly, I became one of her sound editors doing features and TV shows while I was, at the same time, trying to work up my ranks as an editor. And so for a while, it was a bit like a lot of sound, hardly a lot of picture. And then all of a sudden, this kind of came up. And then, so now I’ve mostly been focusing on picture editing for a few years now. And I’ve done everything from features to series to shorts to a lot of documentaries, different genres too as well. And I have a blast doing it.

Sarah Taylor:
Working with Jane Tattersall, that must have been so much amazing knowledge to gain. And like bringing that into the picture editing world, that’s amazing.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
It was great. When I started with her, it was just her and David McCallum and me.

Sarah Taylor:
Wow.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
So, it was like very early days when she left Casablanca, and it was great. What a great mentor to have in terms of the sound and of things. And everything that I’ve learned in sound, I just use every day in picture.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh?That’s awesome. That?s a great? I feel like all editors should have at least like?I don?t know?. a couple weeks working with the sound, like somebody like Jane Tattersall that would bring a lots back into the edit suites. Well, my next question is how do we find work in our area? Like?what are the ways of getting your next job? For myself, it’s just been word of mouth for me. And I find, like I mentioned earlier, working in the TV station, a lot of young producers and directors started their careers there too. So, I made these connections with all these people just starting their career. And then as I got more seasoned, they were also getting better and doing more, and they would remember me from back in the day. And so I’ve got a lot of work either through the people, directly through them, working with them, or they said, “Oh, you should go talk to Sarah.” And then slowly as I… and then I just built a reputation. I work with the same directors and the same producers often over and over again. I’m guessing similar to Jeremy, I started working on a series called Caution: May Contain Nuts. And we did five seasons, and then we did Tiny Plastic Men, so we did four seasons of that. And then we did another show called Delmer. And so I just kept working with that production company on all of their shows, and that’s kind of how it’s been going. And then it’s helped being part of the CCE and getting nominated for awards and for people to put their name out there because I’ve been also lucky enough to get jobs by not even winning the awards necessarily, but my name being on an awards nominee list. Then somebody’s looking for an editor, they wanted somebody new to work with, and I’ve gotten contacts that way too. So yeah, it didn’t really matter that I was in Edmonton for some of those jobs. They just found me through an award list. And then I got to work on a cool show that wasn’t based out of Alberta. So, that was a neat turn of events for me. Let’s go backwards. We’ll start with Roderick in this one.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Well, I was the same as you kind of starting off. It was always word of mouth. It was always through like people that I’ve worked with before that would then seek me out under next projects. Lots of things like, “Hey, do you know an editor?” “Yeah. Oh yeah. Actually, I just worked with somebody.” So, it was a lot of that. And that’s how I relied on getting my next gig for the longest time. And I kept consistently busy. Now lately, I’m in that kind of world of being represented by agents, and so my agent now plays a bigger part in terms of getting me into doors, where I normally… before I got an agent, I normally wouldn’t have the opportunity to, because either it’d be too late because I didn’t know about them or the particular job. So, I get that. I still get my regular sort of people I collaborated with in the past. And you make a really great point, Sarah, about the whole kind of awards and nomination thing, because it is another way to get your name out there and doing things like this and just being visible and being upfront as somebody that people can recognize and look at and seek out.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, I totally want to touch on the agent stuff.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
So, we’ll talk about that again later, but I think-

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Sorry. Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
I would just be curious to know your experience and if anybody else has got experience with that. How about Jeremy?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Basically, it’s word of mouth for me. And like I said, I got partnered up with Clattenburg early on. We were doing a beer commercial. And then one day, the editor at the post house said, “Yeah, Clattenburg has some short film or feature length film. I don’t know. I don’t have the time for it.” And so for 13 hour days for five days straight, we cut the first black and white feature. And then it got sold as a series, and that just was along that path. And everything else in my career has basically been with people that were brought on as producers on that or actors from the show that have done other things, and just that kind of word of mouth. Unlike some people, I haven’t been too blessed with nominations or anything. Trailer Park’s not really one of those things that people go to and say, “Oh, the editing is so amazing on that show.” So, that doesn’t get me any gigs. It’s just working with the small people in this community that are tight-knit and having that word of mouth is a godsend really.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Sorry Jeremy, but the editing in Trailer Park Boys is pretty damn good.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Sometimes. Sometimes.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, it’s very important.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yes, an iconic television. It’s like it doesn’t get much bigger than that in Canada. It’s amazing.

Sarah Taylor:
Come on!

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Well, we are blessed with our fans that are still following us, even though we’re not so active. We did the animated series, which is… that was so different, cutting animated from the stuff that I was used to. It was a big learning curve, but I was-

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
No kidding.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
… blessed with some good people that help me along on that path.

Sarah Taylor:
I didn’t even think about… I noticed that that was on your resume, and I didn’t even realize, well yeah, that’s a whole different world, doing animation editing versus normal picture editing.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah, you’re just cutting sound and hoping that the picture won’t suck later.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, I love it. That?s awesome. Okay, how about Annie.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
The situation in Montreal is, as you can imagine, a little bit unique in that we’re dealing with the two solitudes. And I always get my jobs through producers and directors that I’ve worked with before, but there’s the added difficulty of crossing over between the languages sometimes. And usually what ends up happening is a francophone director will get a gig in English, and then they will meet me and they will bring me over to the French side, because otherwise, I wouldn’t be asked to do those jobs. There’s many, many great francophone editors in this town. So, that’s the way I’ve managed to cross over to do work in French, but it hasn’t happened as much as I would like. So generally, I work for two or three production companies in our town. And some of them are service jobs, and some of them are homegrown productions. And there’s a few shows like Transplant that I’ve been cutting for the last two seasons that are shot in Montreal, so I got the gig. But generally, it’s those relationships with the production companies that are doing big budget stuff, and I’ve been lucky enough to get those gigs, but it is tricky. And in terms of agents and stuff, I know a lot of other editors who have ditched their agents because all of the jobs come through word of mouth, and they just don’t feel like they want to cough up the 10% or 15% to the agent because it’s not really bringing them anything, because it is such a sort of a word of mouth kind of community here. So in Montreal, it doesn’t really work. But definitely, I think we are all looking at how things are changing in terms of tax credits and jobs being kind of done remotely. And I got a job in LA and I got a job out of BC. And so because there’s such a demand for labor, sometimes people are willing to take the hit in terms of the tax credit and hire you out of province to work somewhere else. So, that’s starting to happen I think more and more.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s really great to hear. I think Roderick, you have a similar story where you’re working in BC on a show. And I think even for myself, over COVID was working with a company in Italy. So, there’s like a weird random things that can happen. I don’t know how tax credits work there, but typically, it was always like, “Oh no, sorry, you need to be an Ontario resident or you need to be an Alberta resident because we need this tax credit.” So, it’s really great to hear that that’s shifting. I think through COVID, we’ve realized we can do work anywhere. It’s possible.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Exactly.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
A lots great to hear.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Lisa.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yeah, it?s the same thing. I find out from word of mouth from producers and directors I’ve worked with in the past. I’ve never had an agent. I think I looked into doing that at one point because I was hoping that it would bring a variety of other projects or higher profile projects. But I found from talking to other people, at least in Vancouver, that it is pretty much word of mouth and your reputation. So, I just haven’t thought that it would be something that… because I kind of feel like I’ve got a name for myself here, so I think people will call upon me. I have to admit though, some of the bigger projects that have come to town you’d miss out on, and I kind of wonder what was that because either you didn’t get the connection of the person that was involved or agents got there beforehand. And people, sometimes they’ve gotten interviews, and you didn’t even get a chance to interview and they’ve already got the job. So, it depends. I can see a benefit to agents, but for me personally, I’ve been, I guess, fortunate to have not to had to rely on one. In Vancouver, the climate’s a little different in that it’s a heavy service industry here, and they do a lot of shooting on bigger shows, but they don’t necessarily hire editing here. So, it’s tough because we primarily… most of the shows that work here that hire editors traditionally have been Hallmark and Lifetime. And right now, it has sucked up quite a few of our talent so that people aren’t available for the bigger shows that do come to town that would maybe hire local editors. So, it’s tough because you do want to get better shows to work on, more creatively interesting shows to work on, but for a lot of us it’s really difficult because those opportunities are pretty slim. So, there’s so many of us, and then we’re all vying for the same kind of jobs. And we really don’t have a lot of local independent Canadian production happening here as well. We lost our Western drama division years ago, so everything sort of is being developed out east, and it’s not really happening out here. I’m very fortunate to be starting on a show that is a local show, and I have been very fortunate to work on local shows in the past, but we really don’t have as much as, say Toronto does with their co-productions. It’s very competitive here.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s kind of that idea of… same with like in Alberta. Maybe it’s similar in Nova Scotia where there’s shows that got shot in Alberta in the Mountains in Calgary all the time, major, huge shows. And the thought of post is like meh?not even a?yeah?which is unfortunate.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
I just wanted to ask… like I said, I’ve been really lucky to be working consistently and on good budget shows and interesting shows, but I got to admit that it’s usually like there’s one or two. And are you actually in a position to pick and choose between two, or God knows, three projects? Does that exist in the rest of Canada? Is that something that happens. Because I’m like, woo, okay, I got that show for the next three months, woo-hoo. And I’m not complaining. They’re great shows, but there is one, and I know there’s six of us in town that… and so it’s kind of like that here. I don’t know. What is it like for you guys? Do the people living in bigger cities or with agents, does that make a difference? Are you picking and choosing or-

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I think to a certain degree, they’re like in Toronto anyway, there is a lot more productions going through here and looking for editors. And I mean, once a while?we started up after the lockdown and production started going back, and everybody was clambering to get crewed. And so there was so much to choose from. During that time, there was actually a lot to choose from in terms of where you wanted to end up first. And even now, I find that there is… my agent, I’ll call and kind of coming up to the end of a show that I’m on, it’s like, “Okay, so what’s coming up?” And she’ll usually say, “Okay, well, there’s this show, there’s this show, and there’s that show. Which one are you interested in? Which one should we pursue?” Right? But that doesn’t mean that I’m like, all three shows want me. It’s like what do I want to go for?

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Right. Right. That’s great.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
And also is it like, do you want to get into features on your next round? Do you want to go into series? Right?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
So, there is… and then plus, and that’s what the agent is sort of presenting to me. But sometimes, at the same time, I’ll have producers and directors I’ve worked with before also emailing and calling and saying, “Hey, somebody’s coming up, what?s your availability?” So, I got to weigh all that together.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Right.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
So I mean, it’s Toronto, right? Because I could imagine that it’s not like that countrywide, but that’s what I’ve experienced. And not just me, but also other editors that I talked to as well.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I have to say that out east out here… it was funny, when Lisa was referring to out east, I was thinking-

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
How far east?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah. This far east, we maybe have three or four shows, tops. I have to say that there’s a lot of resentment in my heart sometimes when I hear of a show shooting here, and then I hear that, Toronto. That’s where all the post is going back. And I’ve started a post house here in hopes of keeping some stuff here, but it’s hard. Even with a post house, we were the lab on The Sinner, and they didn’t even want to talk to any of us about editing that. So, it’s? shows come in, and they’ve already planned they’re going out. They’re not going to even sit here. And sometimes, they don’t even process their footage here when they’re done shooting. They just ship it all out to Toronto or New York or LA.

Sarah Taylor:
Or they bring their own crew. I know that happened… I was talking with the editors of Ghostbusters, and they went to Calgary and were doing cutting in Calgary. I was like, oh, I’m glad that you cut it, but I was like, oh-

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
There’s been some editors that have cut shows that have been shot here, and that we were hoping crews would be working here. But yeah, they went back, one editor there and one editor here.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Split.

Sarah Taylor:
For me in Alberta, I just say yes to everything. Now, I’m trying to say no more, but I often find that I’ll be like, oh God, every… and especially after COVID, and we paused and then everything started again, I was like, this hasn’t worked well for me. I have too many things to do. It’s all doc, mostly doc for me. And so the only scripted show that’s been happening as of late has been Heartland, and that’s done now in Calgary, so it’s not even on my radar. So yeah, there’s definitely not any vying for options really.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Here in Vancouver, I think there’s a lot more opportunity to work on bigger projects if you’re an assistant.

PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:25:04]

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
They tend to get better opportunities in terms of the big features and working with editors that are iconic people. That’s cool for assistance in Vancouver. I just wish on some of the shows that were up here that are the bigger ones that they would at least interview. If we could just get an interview just to meet people. I find that the local producers here barely know what we do. It’s really… it’s sort of hard… you can’t even get yourself at the table, which is too bad, because we have so many talented editors and assistants here who are incredible. As I’m sure that we are across the country. It’s, again, trying to get the opportunity to get your foot in the door is a real challenge.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I got to figure too, that we’d be cost effective.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I know. I know.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Why aren’t they even considering that. I’ve cut shows that I know if it was cut in Toronto or somewhere else it’d cost even more than me cutting it. I’m pretty cheap.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Right now I’m cutting a show for CBS, which is normally would’ve been cut in LA, but it’s being cut in Montreal and there is an LA editor and then two Montreal editors. It’s a bit of a learning curve for the Americans, because they’re used to… they’re a bit chauvinistic when it comes to talent. It usually… It takes two or three weeks before they’re like, “Oh, you guys get it?”

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yes.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
It’s all like… I’ve seen it. I did a show for MGM. I did another show for CBS. Then the same thing happens every time. They’re like, “Yeah, I don’t think you guys… do we really… have you seen Seinfeld? Do you understand?” They really don’t think that we share any cultural touchstones at all.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh dear.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
They think we’re like Finland? Then they see your work and they’re like, “Oh, oh, okay!” They’ve sort of accepted it from the crew for a long time, but from? in post it’s kind of new. The show I’m doing now is a comedy and they’re like, “Oh, but you’ve done drama, but comedy that’s way different. You can’t possibly know what that is.” They get it and then they’re like, “Okay.” It’s really… it’s top heavy. It’s hard for them to get it at the beginning, but eventually they do. They have to… it’s, obviously, the bottom line. We’re so much cheaper, and the tax credits, and everything make it just much more attractive. CBS has a relationship now with the company I work with in Montreal a lot. It’s really a tough slog to get them to see the post as good as the crews are now. I think the crews are seen as top-notch, but at post they’re still not getting that.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
We’ve been saying this, I remember when I started out, it’s been that way since the beginning. It’s almost… When I started out I was on a big MGM series, the first, I think, it was the first visual effects series done in Canada called the Outer Limits. It was an amazing project and it trained a whole ton of people that have since gone on to do really incredible things, but the opportunities for that talent, the types of shows, levels of shows that we could be working on it hasn’t gone like we were all hoping it would. Do you know what I mean? It’s sort of stagnated.

Sarah Taylor:
And in BC, you have damn good editors. Is that what this is called?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yes, with IATSE.

Sarah Taylor:
And we have a post production allian? or association in Alberta, that?s talking to government and trying to like, promote Alberta editors and I know that Ontario has Ontario Creates so maybe and like there?s all these, I think people are trying to start. They are starting, but it?s still getting the message out there that giving us a chance or at least looking at the options. The more we talk about it maybe the more it?ll get better? I wanted to ask Rodrick, what made you decide to get an agent and how have you noticed the shift? Because I think people are curious about that.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I was very late and I was very hesitant in the whole agent thing, because for years and years, I’m cutting docs, I’m cutting features, I’m doing all this stuff, and I’m not having to look. I didn’t? as Lisa was saying, I didn’t want to give up 10%, right? But slowly but surely what I started discovering was the shows that I did want to get onto every time I contacted the producers or the production they’d already crewed, right? Way ahead of me even knowing that they were going to be in town. I was like, “Hmm, okay. Great.” Or I would get calls from those big shows saying, “Hey, we need another editor. We lost an editor. Are you available?” But, I’m already committed to something else that I’d gotten on my own, so I couldn’t really leave. And then the clincher for me was early in my career I would have up-and-coming creatives and professionals, “Hey, can we go for coffee? I just want to pick your brain about getting into the industry.” I’m like?

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
“…yeah, absolutely.” Right? Then slowly but surely those people a few years later are the ones that are getting the gigs that I wanted. I was like, “What? What’s going on here?” It was because they were repped. Pretty quickly I was like, “Okay, I got to change my tune about this whole agent thing.” I did my due diligence and I got signed up with Vanguard. What that has afforded me is having a line into these productions that are thinking about coming to Toronto. The first thing those productions do in the States and everywhere else is they call the agencies in Toronto saying give us a list of your editors, right? Already they’re looking at my resume or they’re putting my name forward before they even set foot in here. Sometimes before they’re even green lit to come here. So by the time they do come here I’ve already been tossed around in their head. That’s the biggest advantage for me in terms of… that and not having to talk money with the producers.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. That would be the thing I would want.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Going, oh yeah, you got to talk to my agent.

Sarah Taylor:
Talk to my agent!

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Sorry.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, I would love that. Sometimes I joke that I’m like, I’m just going to pretend my husband’s my business manager. He’s got a different last name. Speak to my manager.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah, that’s the plus, right?

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I still get my roster of people I collaborate with and producers. I’m more than happy to do that, but it feels like now I’ve got, as sort of being in Toronto, I have more choice in terms of what I want to do next, where I want to take my career. And my agent is also very keen, tuned into what I want to do or where I want to be in five years, in ten years.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
They’re strategic about where to put me. They’re not going to just put my name out anywhere. They’ll go, “Oh, no. That’s not for you. This one. I want you to work with this filmmaker, because I think this is a good investment in that.” Right.

Sarah Taylor:
You saying that makes me think it almost forces you to have like? a plan, right?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
A plan.

Sarah Taylor:
To think where do I want to go? Where do I want to be? Maybe other people do this, but I’m not the best at it. Where it’s like, “I’m busy. I’m working. I’m just going to keep working. I’m going to keep doing the thing I do, because I’m making money. Everything’s great.” But you need to sometimes pause or have an external person be like, “Well, what do you really want to work on?”

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
That was the first question they asked me. Where do you see yourself in five years? What kind of shows do you want to cut in five years, right? Within the year they got me that kind of show.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, that’s awesome.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Right. I was just like, “Okay.”

Sarah Taylor:
What’s happening?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
This is great, right? Yeah. After a year we had a meeting, I was like, “Now what?”

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. Like you… That’s great. Oh!

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Right.

Sarah Taylor:
Well, that’s a success story. An agent success story. Okay.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah. It is.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s great.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Look, I have to say that it’s not just get an agent and everything will work out great, because it really is a relationship that you have to… as much as they’re interviewing you to sign you up to their agency you’re interviewing them. Is this the kind of person that has your best interest at heart? Are they going to work with you in terms of where you want to go? That’s something to really consider when you are talking to agents. A little bit about what the roster is like. Do you feel a niche in their group of editors that they might have that doesn’t match somebody else? Therefore, now you’re unique within their roster of editors. That’s something else to look into as well.

Sarah Taylor:
Awesome. That?s great. We have a couple of questions that actually go into our next topics. First, Alex wants to know, Annie, what Montreal post houses do you work with?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Well, it?s?become heavily consolidated lately. So there is MELS and there is Difuze, those are the two main places that are still hosting out edit facilities. Of course, there are lots of tiny ones, but those are the two main labs down. And they are both owned by?well one is owned by Quebecor, and that?s probably follows the move in most of the industry, just that consolidation. That?s like all the small places that used to be the little boutique places that are really fun to work at, kind of gotten eaten up. So that?s the situation in Montreal now.

Sarah Taylor:
Similar to Toronto, I feel like, too, right? There?s been a bunch of places merged. And then, Alex?s another question which is one of my questions is unions. So are you part of the union? What union are you part of? I’m a DGC Alberta person, but I haven’t had a DGC Alberta show in like five years, so it’s because it’s not happening. Yeah, where is everybody at with union?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I mostly focus on that. Occasionally, I’ll get a doc that might not be DGC and then I get dispensation, but I’m mostly doing DGC Ontario shows.

Sarah Taylor:
I’m IATSE and we have a Quebec Union also called Actis. They recently merged, because it was for a long time it was just the Quebec Union and then some of the cinematographers called on IATSE and said, “Hey, we would kind of like representation.” Then it was like the monster came in. In a way it’s been awesome. So now that the two unions have merged, and it depends on the budget level of the show, but IATSE is. Yeah, that’s our main union here.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Same with us. We have IATSE 891 here, which I’m a member and we also have ACFC West, which is an affiliate union. Then we have a ton of non-union work, as I said, with the Hallmark and Lifetime. So-
Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Right.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Because we don’t get a lot of work, a lot of people are a part of everything, because it’s just the nature of the beast is that we have to earn a living, so-

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Right.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Lisa, what’s the difference between the IATSE and the ACFC unions out there?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
It’s basically their contracts that they negotiate. Usually the IATSE shows are bigger budget-
Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I see.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
The ACFC shows are lower budget. The ACFC shows tend to support more local, locally independent Canadian or BC based productions, whereas, IATSE is this machine juggernaut for the service industry for all of the American TV shows that are coming here.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah, same here.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I’m in the DGC and at the same time I am also in IATSE 667 as a DIT.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Okay.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Digital imaging tech. That actually has got me way more phone calls than DGC. I’ve been offered gigs in Manitoba and elsewhere, just because there’s a shortage there. So it’s funny, because I hope that there’d be more shortage of editors, so I could get more editing gigs, but there’s not.

Sarah Taylor:
The next thing I was curious about is what is your work environment like? We can talk about, what was it like pre-COVID and post-COVID. For me personally, it didn’t really change. I work from home. This is my edit suite where we are right now. There was one… I had one client director that liked me to work out of her home studio, so I would go there a few weeks out of every couple months, but then that stopped. That was basically it for me. Work from home kind of creates my own schedule. That’s what it’s been like since I started freelancing in 2012. I sometimes miss the potlucks that we used to have in offices and getting to have an editor come and look at a cut if I needed to get a fresh set of eyes, I miss that sort of thing, but I like that I can export something at six o’clock and then upload it and I don’t have to run around. Yeah, I can be at home still. Then it was an easy transition during COVID, because I was already used to being by myself.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yeah, that’s great.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
That’s great.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I was working at?it was strange before COVID I was at Finale this facility working on a show, a Netflix show, and there was three editors working, and, I think, we had four assistants. Then COVID hit, and we went home, and finished the shows, and we were like within two days up and going at home to continue. And then everything stopped after that show. Thank God we had that show. That was good, because it gave us some work into the time when everything shut down and then there was nothing for months. Then I worked on an independent feature that was shot in Taiwan?shot in Taiwan, Beijing, Detroit, and in Vancouver. I worked out of my living room, if you will, on a system. That was great. My assistant was in… two assistants were in Taiwan. It was fascinating, because we were thrown into that remote workflow and it worked really well. Then started on this project that I’m on right now at home. It was shot in Toronto and I was working at home and then the director, who’s from Los Angeles, wanted to work in person. I came back to Finale and he was here and this is why we have a little plexiglass. He sits over behind me with his N95 mask on and all the safety protocols are in place here. We did his cut and then it went to testing. We’re dealing with our testing notes now. It’s been a bit of both worlds. I loved working from home. I really did, because I found I was more focused. I was able to… I don’t know. I was able to concentrate better, but what I missed dearly was, as you said, bringing people into the room to get their feedback and to brainstorm. It’s harder to do that on Zoom. You can still do it, but it’s something about bringing somebody physically into the room that I really missed.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
When COVID hit I was working on a show called Blood and Treasure for CBS and my husband was on the show also. We worked out of our home studio, which is this three of us here, my teenage son and the two of us editors working with headphones for three months. I could not wait to get back to the lab. They were on hiatus for a while, because it was all being shot in Thailand in Italy. They had to wait till the restrictions lifted and they were finally able to finish the shoot. We had 20 days left of shooting out of 170 days for the series. They finished the shoot and I went back to the lab. My husband kept cutting here and we’ve been cobbling it all together. Now, my husband cuts a show that shot mostly here, but during the director’s cuts he goes to the lab and they cut together in the studio.
I was very happy to go back to the cutting room where I had my assistant who I’ve worked with for 25 years and that whole… all the support that was wonderful. I really like my little room there where I can get out of the house and that suits me very well. A bike ride, and 10 hours, and then home.
It’s been… I work in different places in Montreal, but the main one has been, because the companies that I work with tend to use the same labs all the time. That’s where I’ve been at for the last two years and it’s very comfy, and I have my workout equipment, and my humidifier, so it’s very homey.

Sarah Taylor:
I was just curious about the… because you mentioned that your husband’s still doing some stuff at home, but then does his director’s cuts in the studio. Is it because that post house or that lab is connected already with the production that there’s a space for him to do that?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yes.

Sarah Taylor:
How is…?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Okay, that’s how it’s set up.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
They’re processing the rushes and they’re doing everything. When he was just assembling he was working at home and then when they had to come together it was considered sort of like A) safer and B) that was just a protocol, because they were having producers, and directors, and sometimes six people in the room. They needed a really big suite to accommodate all those people for screenings and stuff.

Sarah Taylor:
I feel like for me in Alberta, that?s the one thing that I kinda miss? I wish there was? I think there are some? I can probably find out if there is something that I can do but where I could, just for those moments, sort of like fine cut sessions, or getting to picture locked, not always have somebody come to my house, like, it?s okay, but during COVID that’s where it kinda became this kind of weird like ?I don?t know if I really want you in my house, so to have that opportunity to be able to??. And then I was like I have a server here, I can?t really take my server with me, too. Yeah, that?s like to have that option is pretty awesome.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I was in this odd, I only say odd because mostly everybody I knew once Toronto production started up again or post production they all started from home. I was kind of… me and a couple of other editors were actually went into a facility to start working in August, which in the beginning was very scary. Right? What I discovered was it was fairly safe, because everybody followed protocol. Everybody was followed the rules and the facility itself was great. One way into the building, one way out, that kind of stuff. What I discovered was it was really great for my mental health. Is what I found, because rather than being cooped up at home, which I could work from home easily and be productive and all that stuff. I do know of a lot of editors that have been working from home since August 2020 that are now just clamoring for anything social or interactive with another body. For the same reason, because I thrive on collaborating. I thrive on pulling other editors and assistants and saying, “What do you think of this?” Going for a walk to go get coffee, and talking story, and talking characters. The funny thing is on that first show, the first director came in for their director’s cut, and then the producer came in for their producer’s cut. After that it was all remote. All the creatives, directors, and show runners, and producers from that point on since then on three show shows, I guess, I’ve been on since last August have all been remote through like ClearView or Whatnot. That’s been odd, but being able to separate home life and work life has been really, I find, in terms of my mental health and dealing with the pandemic and being affected by it kept me sane. I was really thankful for that.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. Totally. That totally makes sense.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
How about you, Jeremy?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Well, I own my own post house. So-

Sarah Taylor:
That’s good. That helped.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
It’s very small. We are also a lab that do our own processing and I’m in the same building as the Trailer Park Boys. When COVID hit we were actually working on an animated series and a lot of the team were outside of the province already. We were using Frame.io and that’s how most of our workflow was going. When we kinda had to shut down I was still able to come to the building, because we had very few people in the building and all the protocols were fine. Then when we had to record some sessions and stuff, we’d Zoom in, but I was literally in the same building as they were in a back room hiding, and recording their lines, and stuff. It never really changed for me. It’s been pretty much the same. I guess, I’m the most lucky, because I have my own office. I control everything. If there was a moment where shut down had to happen and stuff I said to my staff, “None of you guys come in. You’re fine. You’ll get paid.” Or whatever. “Work from home, but I’m definitely not going to be trying to work from home.” I tried, I really did. I was in a basement in, basically, a closet and my kids were upstairs running around all the time. Not too productive.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Not nearly as productive as being here.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. I have to say, during COVID when my daughter had to stay at home, it was a bit of challenging. That?s for sure. Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I end up doing a lot of tech support for their calls at schools than doing the editing I was supposed to be doing.

Sarah Taylor:
Totally. I think that?s a common theme. We have a few questions here. Gordon’s asking what we’re charging or if we’re charging for our home suites across Canada. I put mine into my day rate, because I’m always working for home. It’s not like per show. Certain companies, like the? I work with NFB will always pay a day rate plus the kit, which is great, but that doesn’t always happen. Yeah. It’s a bonus when I get it. Anybody else have any kit options?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
No one wants to say.

Sarah Taylor:
Nobody. We don’t want to talk about money. That’s what our agents are for.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
It all depends on the budget too, right?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I think that here in Vancouver, it’s some people don’t pay anything, I’m sure. Some people pay a hundred dollars a week. Then I know that, I think, through the ACE practices and also IATSE, I believe that if you have a machine and you’re working from home, I think, it’s on average, they’re trying to get people to get at least $500 for the office and everything. Which is still a deal.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s for the whole production.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Per week, but I mean that’s on the bigger budget things. I’m not sure about any.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah, that’s in Ontario that’s about the going rate. About 500 for the bigger budget shows. Anything smaller will just incrementally get less than that. Sometimes they go can you throw in your system? Depending on the show. Right? Five is probably the most that you can get. I think I got 550 once, but that was a really big budget show and they were like? That’s what the agent kind of –

Sarah Taylor:
Shout out to the agent.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I didn’t ask for it. I was like, “Oh, really? Okay, sure. You got it. Okay.”

Sarah Taylor:
I sometimes forget about the kit, the rental suite, the suite rental. When this last NFB thing they’re like, “Oh yeah. What’s your suite rate?” I was like, “Oh yeah. I should be charging for that.”

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
They break it down. It’s interesting, because they do break it down to not only your space, but your security, your internet, your utilities, your power, your?

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
If you’re in an office regularly, I don’t know, I should know, but I’m sure they’re paying more. It becomes sort of a fair and equity thing. Everything you don’t realize that you’re utilizing all the time.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. Another question was the process of moving from an assistant editor to an editor.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I was very lucky. Like I said, I started off as an intern. Last three months of the school year they actually wanted to hire me, so I graduated early. And I was assisting with commercials, some comedy shows, and some docs, and stuff like that. Like I said, I got partnered up, because the senior editor didn’t want to work on a show for one week and that just skyrocketed from there.

Sarah Taylor:
You snuck right in.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah, snuck in.

Sarah Taylor:
It’s mine now.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I’ll do it. No sleep. Sure.

Sarah Taylor:
I’m young. I’m eager. That’s awesome.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
I always ask my assistant editors to cut scenes and I’ve got to be honest, I look at them and I have a feeling just the same way I have about what I’m looking at my own cuts. How they’re doing, whether they have an instinct for it. If they’re really good, I’ll just say, “You know what? This is what should be doing.” There are some assistant editors who are super happy doing what they do. They’re organizational geniuses and that they love doing that. But if I see someone who’s got real potential I will push them and say, “You know what?” Often it’s not their personality or some of them are super young. Like, “You have something.” I can see right away that they have an instinct. The way they lay out their tracks, the choices that they make, they do things that I didn’t expect, and I’m like, “You know what? You should do this more.” I will give them more and more scenes to cut and I will talk about them to the producers first. Oftentimes they’re totally surprised. They’re like, “Really, that’s good.” Everyone needs a leg up and everyone needs a little affirmation to know that they have that thing. The judgment or whatever. I try and find ways to give people opportunities, whether it’s cutting a previously on or, like I said, scenes that I haven’t gotten around to. Then we talk about them. That’s the key part is taking the time to talk about them and saying like, “Okay, so why did you choose that? Maybe, you could do this.” I find that so rewarding and they often love it. The post houses hate me, because I try and promote them and everyone needs assistant, good assistant editors. Yeah. If they’re into it, it shows right away.

Sarah Taylor:
Would you suggest an assistant? let the editor know ahead of time, “Hey, I’m really interested in cutting scenes if you have any available” or to put that…?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Totally, absolutely. Yeah. I want to know. I want to know that that’s your interest. Like I said, some assistants, that’s not for them. They just don’t… it used to be when I startet?
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:50:04]
Annie Ilkow, CCE:
… it was like everyone wanted that, but it’s not necessarily the case now.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I have a thing I should interject, if it’s okay. Because I own a post house, I’ve employed some people over the years as assistants for me and for other people too. And one thing I’ve did really early on was a Lego test. I give them a kid Lego and I make them put it together and time them and see how accurate they were, and then I found that some of my interns that did it well were bang on great assistants.

Sarah Taylor:
Would they get Lego with instructions?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yep, with the instructions.

Sarah Taylor:
Because I’m not good at creating my own Lego images, but I could work on the one with instructions. I’m like, I don’t know how my feelings with the test.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
You would think you would, but I’ve given them little spaceships, Star Wars stuff, and the power supplies are backwards, the roof doesn’t close, all sorts of weird stuff and just little details and you start figuring out who’s got attention to detail.

Sarah Taylor:
So everybody who’s an assistant editor on this call, be sure to practice your Lego skills and then Jeremy will give you a job, he’ll know.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I also do the same test, so that sets the bar.

Sarah Taylor:
I love it.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I’ve only had one assistant ever be better than me on one test.

Sarah Taylor:
So next time we have a call, we’ll supply the same Lego kit to all the editors on this call and we’ll just do a Lego test.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
If you could see my room and the amount of Lego in here, I think you guys might all lose.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I love everything that Annie said because I completely follow that kind of train of thought. When I land on a show, I ask and I determine what kind of assistant they are. Are they the kind of assistant that’s a career assistant, love career assistants, or are they the assistant that wants to move up into the chair? As soon as I find out they are, then I’m one of those guys because I had really strong mentors. And so, I only find it fitting that I need to be a strong mentor to anybody that I’m working with. And so, because of that, I seek them out and I go and I encourage them. I do exercises with my assistants where I go, “Okay, I’m about to cut this scene, you cut it too. And then when you’re done let me know and let’s watch both of ours together and talk about.” And we’ll do that and I’ll find things that they’ve done that, “That’s great. I’m stealing that if you don’t mind.” Or sometimes I’ll go, “Okay, see. There’s this look. What do you think about this look that I used?” And they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I never thought of that.” So it makes them think about how to cut, not just cutting and how to look for performances. I look for pacing and all that. And if I work with the same assistant on another show, they maybe move up, then I start giving them scenes. And I say, “This is your scene.” When the director has notes, you are doing these notes and they’re yours. And I don’t hide the fact that they are, I tell the director, I go, “By the way, my assistant cut this,” and they love it. They’re like, “Really? Cool.” And then they take ownership and they go, can you tell them to…” And then all of a sudden, as an assistant, when they watch it on air, they watch it on the screens in the theater, they know that’s their work that’s up there. And to give that encouragement and that support I think is really important. But it is hard to make that transition and you just have to be very, as an assistant, make it known. I don’t think you should ever be scared to tell them what your ambitions and your passions are because if they don’t know, then they won’t be able to help you then.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That’s true.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And then just that question, do you have more than one assistant on each project? Or is it mostly one assistant, in terms of your guys’ teams?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
If it’s a feature, it’s usually one assistant. I’d be lucky. And we’re trying to change things here in Ontario, where we have a more complete roster in terms of the crew, where we have a trainee and all that. If it’s series, especially if it’s a bigger TV series, usually they will have two firsts, a second and a trainee.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Nice.

Sarah Taylor:
And they’re working amongst all the editors on the series?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
For the most part. I like all hands on deck. Although I did work on Killjoys where there were two first assistants and they focused on one editor, and the other assistant would work with another editor at the same time. That’s a bit harder because then they’re spread thin, I think, because not only are they doing what you need done, but they’re also doing what the department needs done, so it’s a bit trickier for them to manage. But I like all hands on deck where everybody’s just like, “Can you do this? You pick this up and do script sync on that one, while I do this bin and all that.” That’s great.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Because that’s what I find for us in Vancouver, we’re lucky to get. Usually you’ll have one assistant, if you’re on a series, you’ll have two, hopefully, but we rarely have a second assistant position. And we rarely have a visual effects editor. So the opportunity, when I started, it was back in the day when they were still shooting on film and you would have three first assistants, two seconds, a production assistant, and a whole other visual effects team. And since that time, over the years, it’s becoming less and less and less and less. The coordination side of things has gotten bigger it seems, but the editorial teams are, it’s just you and your assistant. And it is, I find, a lot of times, the assistants are so run ragged doing everything that there’s no time to have them cut. I’ll say, “Do you want to cut?” And they’re like, “When am I going to cut? I can’t.” And it’s a luxury now to have them come in and watch cuts. It’s a real issue here I find, but in my words of wisdom to somebody who’s an assistant that wants to cut as everybody else, let people know, let everybody know, and try to cut as much as you can. And back in the day when I was learning, I wasn’t allowed to touch the machines because it was heavily unionized and I’d had to come in on the weekends or late at night to figure them out and to play with stuff. And now I just find it so tragic because we’re all connected, all the materials there. I would kill to be able to learn that way now because that’s what I would do. I would come in on the weekends and not look at what the editor had done and start cutting my own scene and then I’d get it all done. I think it was really great. And I’d be like, “Oh my God, let’s see what…” And then I’d go into the bin and find out how the editor cut it, and I would look at it and go, “Oh my God.” And I would just do that constantly and it was fascinating because you could compare stuff and it forced you to see things completely differently than… and you were just so… That’s how I learned.
And then, the editors would find out that I was doing that, and then they’d have conversations and certain editors were more giving of their time and discussions, which was fantastic, but I do find now it’s really tough because our assistants have no time. We all don’t have any time. Everything’s just go, go, go, go. And I just thought with COVID, I thought, “Oh great, they’re going to give us more time. The schedules are going to get more relaxed. We’re going to get more help,” because we need more help. Because that hasn’t unfortunately happened in my experience, it’s the same schedules.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Are you guys finding that the lab is doing less of the work and your assists are doing a lot of the syncing and stuff like that? Or is it different for you guys? Because I am the lab and my own team, my team, but doing all that stuff. But I know that some people, they rely on the lab to provide them with all the files on the drive and they just start cutting and labeling and going from there. So your assists might be busy, are they loading footage, raw data, converting it, transcoding, applying LUTs, stuff like that, or are you finding that they’re just busy with keeping up with notes and all the other-

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Here, it depends on the budget of the show. The lower budget Hallmark shows, the assistants, they’ll hire somebody to come in at night to do the syncing. The things that the bigger budget shows, like the one I’m on now, the facility will do that for us. So the assistants are strictly receiving the synced material and are bending them and grouping them and preparing them. So in our experience in Vancouver, it’s totally budget based.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
In Ontario, very much so there’ll be shows where the assistants are managing and transcoding and syncing, but then there’s the bigger shows where the lab does it and then the assistants just gets everything and bins, and then they organize and they prep everything in the avid for the editor.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Generally here, it’s always the lab that preps everything, even on docs and low budget stuff. Yeah, it’s good because there’s plenty, like we were saying, there’s plenty for the assistants to do otherwise already.

Sarah Taylor:
And Edmonton, or for me, some shows will say, “Okay, you can have an assistant.” And then I’ll be like, “Yay.” And then recently I’ve just been like, “Okay, I’m going to just hire you to do this for me because I’m busy on this other project, so can you sync and organize my footage?” And it’s been working great, but I’m just going out and doing that because I want to save my time. And so, assistants are important. Thank you, assistants. Thank you a lot.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Especially nowadays too, for all of us, I find that the expectation with less time to do it, fully temp scored, fully sound designed, fully temp visual effects. It’s like a massive undertaking. And there’s two of us.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That’s right. In Montreal, we don’t really have that American sort of structure of first and second assistants. It’s just like everyone does everything and everyone pitches in. And some people just like, it’s just their… It’s luck of the draw. Someone happens to know After Effects, someone happens to be really great with music or sound effects or whatever. And then so you just go like, “oh, okay, you.” And that?s when division of labor happens kind of that way. It’s just a bit random, but that’s Quebec, it’s very not hierarchical. It’s just all hands on deck. So that’s the way it works here. But it’s not something you want to rely on, but that’s generally the way it works.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I miss the hierarchy, in terms of training opportunities, because it’s a real shame that we… That’s how you learn. You learn by watching, you learn by seeing what other people do and you get that experience that when the assistants were busy, they’d throw the second assistant, “Okay, you do this temp score, can you figure out this visual effect?” And it would be, we’d be so exciting. It’d be like, “Oh my God, I could do something other than paperwork.” And it’s sad because I think a lot of people are being thrown into, especially now, thrown into situations where they’re not prepared and they’re not trained. And it can backfire, obviously, for everybody’s sake. And so, I think it really, and especially now that we are working more remotely, the people are saying it’s even harder to get learning opportunities. And I think that’s something that we really have to be aware of and figure out a way to work, because it’s our future and things seem to get busy, but we need to really look at the…It shouldn’t always and it’s this whole thing we’re all going through right now with this horrible incident that happened in the States on the set of Rust, where there’s a definite hierarchy for a certain reason. And traditionally, that hierarchy has been, sometimes it’s for safety, sometimes it’s for respect, sometimes it’s for communication, sometimes it’s for politics. There’s many, many reasons why this hierarchy, over time, has been the way it’s always been. And to lose that now because of budget, if we aren’t careful, it’s going to really impact our ability to work properly and to serve the client’s needs, which are huge, big studio, sometimes, expensive things if they aren’t getting what they want.
So it really would be my plea somehow to say to producers and people who are in charge of budgets to really not look at being a hero to save money, 5 cents, to look good for the production. When in fact if you spent more and supported your team and trained people so that we can work together towards the future where we all learn and we all… how I was privileged to have come up the ranks of that system, it would just make this world a better place, and it would be less stressed and more happy people.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, totally.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And better creativity, I think too. You got more minds working on it. It’s just going to get better.

Sarah Taylor:
Well, that kind of brings into another question. Our working conditions, our working hours, what is it like? In our different areas of the world? Of course, in light of what happened on the set of Rust and with IATSE and the States wanting to strike, how are things in your world? For me, luckily, because I’m working by myself and my house. I do an eight-hour day. I don’t push myself… sometimes it’s only six hours, depending on where my creativity is that day. But as long as I meet my deadlines and get things done, I’m okay. I had to learn to do that. I had to force myself to be like, these are my working hours, so I need to make sure that I can try to learn how to be creative in these hours and not burn the candle or whatever they say, midnight oil, because I have a young family. So for me, once that happened, I like, “I can’t do this.” I can’t function as a human working 10 to 12-hour days and then trying to be a mom. So I made that choice, but I know that’s not the choice that’s easy, that can be made by many other people. So I’m curious, how does it work in the other parts of Canada?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Work-life balance is so important to me, presently. I used to be one of those guys, years ago, where it was like, I’ll work as long as I can, hours upon hours to get the work done. But then, you slowly realize, or you get better at actually being more productive in the shorter amount of time. And then, once I had a family, I was like, “I can’t do that anymore.” So what I started doing was actually going into work super early, like you know 6, 6:30, so that by the time everybody starts rolling in, I’ve done half the stuff that I needed to do for that day. So I’m less stressed and I can leave when… there’s still going to be late nights, there’s still going to be a cut is due, and I’m a bit behind and that’s still going to happen. But I try to make sure that that’s not every day, and as long as it’s not… and I get to see my family at the end of the day and chill and relax and then go in the next morning, that’s really important. I think that eventually everybody should strive for that ideal.

Sarah Taylor:
I think that those conversations we’re having more, where we’re like, “We need to be human,” and I feel like something I always like to share with younger editors is that you need to bring life to your edit suites too. You’re telling stories about life, but if you’re not living life, then… you need to be part of life too. And so, I think that’s really important. And also the morning times. It’s probably super nice to go into the office, it’s quiet, nobody’s there usually that early. I would get so much work done if-

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I love it. I was always a night owl until I had kids. Then I was like, “Okay. Forget that.” And it’s great leaving early in the morning because the kids aren’t up yet, so you get to sneak out.

Sarah Taylor:
There’s no traffic, probably, that’s pretty sweet.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Exactly.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s awesome.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
My routine is, I get up at seven and get my kids off to school, and then I’m in the office at 9 and I don’t leave until maybe 12 at night. But that’s not because I’m editing the show necessarily, it’s also because I’m trying to run a business and do other things here. And sometimes I’m just in the office taking a few hour breaks, watching movies and TV shows to just be a little bit more aware of what’s going out there and stuff. And because I cut predominantly comedy, I try to watch comedy from all over the world as much as possible just to get a sense of what other people might think is funny. So that keeps me busy. And then the weekends are totally my family time. That’s it. No emails, no phone calls, unless the building’s burning down.

Sarah Taylor:
I just want to quickly, as a sidebar, what’s the most recent thing comedy wise you’ve watched from somewhere else in the world that you were like, “That’s great.”

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Oh, okay. It’s going to make me sound like a weirdo, but I do watch a lot of weird shows. There’s this thing called Last One Laughing on Amazon Prime, and it started off in Japan. And then there’s been an Australian, and a German, and Italian, and Spanish, and Mexican one, and Indian one. I’ve watched every different country’s versions. I just finished watching the second season of the German one, and it’s ten comedians locked in a room for six hours, where they try to make each other laugh, but if they laugh, they get voted out and the last one at the end wins all the money.

Sarah Taylor:
I love it.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That’s awesome.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And actually, there’s supposed to be a Canadian one that Jay Baruchel is rumored to be hosting, but I don’t think they’ve shot it yet. And that’s something I’d like to work on, or at least maybe get one of the Trailer Park Boys on, see if they can survive.

Sarah Taylor:
I would not.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I was just going to say that I think, for people to keep in mind is to know your worth and take care of yourself. Because, as a younger person, I didn’t do that. I didn’t know my worth, I didn’t know that somebody asked you to do something you kind of felt was inappropriate, you just did it because it was like, “Oh my God, I’ll never work again.” And I guess now I’m just starting now, as old as I am, to have a confidence to say, “No, this isn’t right. I’m not being treated right.” So saying no sometimes can be a good thing. And it’s taken me a long time to learn that. And I think if more of us do that, I think it might be a better working conditions for everybody. So does this really have to go out tonight?
Does it really? Or can this wait till tomorrow? Because I’m very aware of schedules, I’m very responsible, I work very hard. But I think there’s a certain point where you have to let… and I try to, when I’m working with directors or producers, they say, “We need to get this done.” I have to say to them, “Look, let’s bring the assistant in and let’s find out how long this is going to take, and how late in the night is that assistant going to be here to make sure that this gets out. And are you really wanting this assistant to stay till X amount of time?” And I involve the assistant so that they can say… we block it out. Because I think people don’t real… a lot of people don’t have a clue what we do, and they certainly don’t know what assistants do, and they certainly don’t know how long it takes.
So when they ask for things, and things happen, like they always happen, magically in post. And I find that when I bring people in and have that discussion, that directors and producers will go, “Do the best you can.” There’s leeway, but you can not guilt them into it, but go, “Guys, how important is this?” And I don’t think a lot of people do that. And I do think that I wish that, again, as a collective whole, we start doing that, because it can wait for the most part.

Sarah Taylor:
Well, there’s moments where it’s like, is the broadcaster actually going to watch this on Friday at five in the afternoon?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Exactly.

Sarah Taylor:
They’re not going to watch it till Monday.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
I’m on the wrong show to be asking this question right now.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s reality though, it’s the reality of lives. What’s it like everywhere?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
I really love what everyone’s been saying, but it is the kind of show where none of those things apply. There’s two different situations. One is where you’re like, “I’m not going to let this go out until it’s as good as it can possibly be.” And then there is like, “I am here for 10 extra hours because of someone else not doing their part.” So those are the difficult ones, for sure. But I do try and find, some days I’ll work 16 hours, but some days I’ll work four and I’ll leave. So I find my ways to make it feel equitable, but sometimes you’re working with people who have zero consideration for what happens downstream. And that’s just the way it is.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And that happens a lot. That does happen a lot.

Sarah Taylor:
We touched a little bit on it, both, I believe Annie and Roderick have worked out of their district, you could say. But Lee had asked, how did you manage the tax credit thing? What has everybody’s experience been working in other areas of the world?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Well, I was working on a co-pro, I guess it was co-pro where I was working in LA, but I was being paid by a Canadian company. And that’s how that worked out. And then I was hired by a BC company to do MOW, and then last year I did a co-pro with France. So I spent a month there, but that was it. In terms of the structuring of the finances, it was a little of this, a little of that, but generally still, it’s mostly the Quebec tax credit that determines my gigs for sure.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I’m fairly new to working out of Ontario. I haven’t actually started the BC show yet, that’s in a couple of weeks. But in the end, it’s like if they want to hire somebody outside of their province, then it’s their purview to lose whatever tax credit they want for that talent that they’re trying to get in. So I think that was what happened to me. I’m not sure what the distinction that was. And as everything everybody’s been saying, it’s been easier, or more acceptable, to do that now. I think people are looking outside of their bubble in terms of where they’re at to really try to find the best possible people for the job. To Jeremy’s point, I do support, and wish, that they did actually start for where they are and start looking. And if there’s nobody there, then start looking elsewhere. But I feel like I’m a bit of… I feel guilty because I worked on Chapelwaite, which is shot in Nova Scotia, but then posted in Toronto. I’m working on Billy the Kid, which is shot in Calgary now.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Cool.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s cool though. That’s great.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
The thing is, but it’s not as if they’re like, “We’re going to shoot here, and then we’re going to find somewhere else.” I think it’s different. I think they find the servicing production or where they want to base their post and then they go, “Where do we want to shoot?” I think sometimes it’s the other way. So they’ve settled into where their home base is and then they find the location that fits their genre, their project.

Sarah Taylor:
Or there’s a comfort, they’ve worked in that production house before and so this is where we’re going to go back.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Exactly. And then, from the LA thing to going up to BC and then going, “Well, I want to go home and cut.”

Sarah Taylor:
I want to spend eight months cutting in my home instead of-

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Exactly. So it’s challenging.

Sarah Taylor:
And I think with remote editing, now, we’re figuring out, there’s lots of great software out there that we can do remote sessions with. The opportunities could open up. For me, I’ve worked with a company out in Italy during COVID, but they were specifically like, “We want to do this project that’s kind of COVID related and we want to work with editors from around the world.” So they went out and looked for people from different places. And so they had an editor in Australia, they had me in Canada, they had somebody, I think, somebody from the States.
I think the opportunities can be there. It’s just how we get our names out into the international market. How do we make people know that we exist, and like Annie’s saying, that we actually can edit. We’re not just, “Not at all.” And I don’t know in Canada being… I don’t know what they would think we’re doing like that. We watch Netflix, we watch all the same shows, we understand the pop culture references. I think that’s interesting. And another question I had was? other than the CCE, because this is the best editing organization in Canada, are there any other local organizations that you are part of or have been part of in the past that has helped you in your career or in your creative journeys?
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [01:15:04]
Sarah Taylor:
… in the past that has helped you in your career or in your creative journeys?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I’m involved … within the DGC in Ontario, a bunch of us editors have gotten together actually, and formed our own little, not official DGC, but a BIPOC diversity and inclusion committee that we actually have this … we started it back in April when lockdown started, and this all has to do with diversity inclusion training, building crews, building stronger crews within Ontario through either courses and training and mentorship and all that stuff. Organizations like that exist, and I know that the CCE does their own mentorship thing too, as well. And also there’s other organizations like that in Toronto, like the BIPOC Film & TV, where you can join up and be a part of a community that’s all headed towards the same goal of trying to be successful and support each other in doing that. So there are lots of organizations like that, that you can network and meet people and make connections, and then down the line work on stuff together.

Sarah Taylor:
There’s one in Alberta called Creatives Empowered, and it’s another BIPOC organization specifically for creatives in all arts. And they started up probably around right after COVID hit. And they’ve been doing lots of really great things here. And then my last question, what are you working on right now? And what might be coming out soon for us to watch? I have a request for Lisa to tell me when Zombies 3 is going to be released, because my daughter’s very excited and wants to know, will there be Zombies number four?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Well, I guess I’ll go, because I’m currently working on Zombies 3 and we just got our test screening notes back. They don’t have an air date, but it’ll be sometime, I think in the spring of next year. And you know what? I can’t say. But I think it will be hopeful that it will go on-

Sarah Taylor:
Excellent.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
In some way, shape, or form. Yeah, it’s a really fun… I got to say, it’s such an amazing… The cast is incredible. These young people are so talented and they do everything, they sing, they dance, they do their own stunts, they’re funny, they’re dramatic. And they have a really great chemistry. They have a whole new people that have come in and they all click so well. I’m so blown away, because I don’t know what I was doing at their age, but it certainly wasn’t… I’m just blown away by the talent that is there.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s great. Well, we’ve watched Zombies 1 and 2 on repeat for quite some time, well, I quite enjoyed it.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And the music, the music’s incredible.

Sarah Taylor:
I think it’s so fun.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yeah, it is.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. I don’t mind sitting down and watching it with her, so I was like, “Yeah, I’m talking to the Zombies editor today.” She’s like, “What?” So you’re a rockstar in our house.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Wow.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I didn’t realize, it’s very popular. Apparently it’s a huge hit worldwide too, so it’s-

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, that’s great.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And then I’m going to start on hopefully, a series called Reginald the Vampire. So I’m going from zombies to vampires.

Sarah Taylor:
I love it. That’s great. Jeremy, what’s up for you?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I just finished a show that was based off of a Facebook and YouTube group called Tracy and Martina. They’re two Cape Bretoners that are basically like Jersey Shore Cape Bretoners in a way. And that’s a weird comedy to work on, because I am in Nova Scotia and I do know a lot of Cape Bretoners, but there’s some things that they’re saying that are just, it’s a different language, it’s a different universe. And then of course, I do whatever trailer park stuff the guys do, because they own their own website. So they do podcasts weekly and their own little series and stuff, and yeah, that keeps me busy.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Jeremy, what’s your post-production facility called?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Digiboyz.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, I like it.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Digiboyz.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
All right.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
That makes sense.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s right, it does.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
It was because way back in the day, I started it with Clattenburg.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And we were at a coffee shop and he’s like, “Yeah, let’s start a post house.” And I’m like, “Uhhh.Okay.” I think I was 20 at the time.

Sarah Taylor:
Wow.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
That’s amazing.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah. And that’s the name we came up with because of Trailer Park Boys.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s so good.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I’m just wrapping up Billy the Kid, just waiting for my final notes before I lock. And then I’m starting that BC show, which is a CBC mini-series called Bones of Crows. It’s a five part mini series, it’s about residential schools. And yeah, so I’ll be working remotely for the first time for a while during the winter. And then in January I might see you, Lisa, because I’ll be over there for about two months.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Oh, that’s cool.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah. And then still working out there and then-

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And the best time of year to be in Vancouver.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yes, that’s what everybody says, and they’re all trying to sell me on it, and it’s going to be awesome. And I’m so looking forward to it, because I’ve always wanted to be out west. So yeah, I’m very, very looking forward to it.

Sarah Taylor:
And Annie, I have to say, I watched the first episode of Ghosts. I quite enjoyed it.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
It’s a very cute show. I have to say, it’s really fun and working on comedy as a lot of you know, is just the most demanding and surgical and precise kind of editing that you could do. And it’s wonderful for your chops. It’s been really great working on that show. And the writers are very funny and it’s a sweet show. The cast is? it’s like a big cast, and they’re all at the top of their game, so it’s a very fun show to do. I’ve got a few more episodes on that. And then Transplant just got renewed for season three, so I’ll be doing that sometime in the new year.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Which is a great series.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Thank you. Thank you very much. Really, that’s wonderful to work on. Joseph Kay, the creator is just like a dream to work with. He really appreciates editing. And again, the performances are really great. And there’s a little gap in the middle there, but it seems like there’s a lot of stuff happening in town, so I’m hopeful. I’m hopeful. Let’s see.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s great. For myself, I’m working on a lifestyle TV series called Rodeo Nation, and it’s about indigenous rodeo in Alberta.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Oh, cool.

Sarah Taylor:
And that’s been super fun. And I just wrapped on a CBC version of a doc called The Last Baron, which is about a burger joint called the Burger Baron, and it is run by Lebanese immigrants. And so we’re now expanding it into a feature film, which was going to be called the Lebanese Burger Mafia.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Oh, great.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Excellent.

Sarah Taylor:
And yeah, we found that with the 46 or 44, whatever, 30 that we had to tell the story was not enough time. There was so many amazing stories of the journey these people made to come to Canada, and so we’re going to expand on that. And the filmmaker is the son of a Baron, so his dad owned a Burger Baron when he was growing up. So he decided to investigate, “Well, where did this come from? Why are all these Burger Barons owned by Lebanese families? What is happening?” So we unpacked all that. So that’s on CBC Gem if you want to learn about burgers. And then promptly eat a burger, because it’s very tasty looking at all that stuff. So then I’ve eaten a lot of Burger Baron in the last few months.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
For research purposes.

Sarah Taylor:
Yes, totally. And actually, I went to Burger Baron on Saturday, and the owner who’s in the doc was serving me, so I said to my daughter, “Hey, that’s the guy that’s in the documentary I worked on.” And she’s like, “Are you going to tell him that?” I was like, “Yeah, probably.” And so I said, “Hey,” and he’s like, “Oh my goodness.” And then he wanted to buy us something. Anyway, it was so sweet. And I’m like, “I know everything about you and you know nothing about me.”

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
“You have no idea who I am.”

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, “I’m this strange random blonde lady.” So yeah, they were all very sweet people, and yeah, it’s been fun.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Annie, did they improvise quite a bit on Ghosts?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Not at all.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
That’s good. Oh, really? Why?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Well, no, that’s not true. They improvised a lot and we didn’t use any of the ad libs. Yeah, no, there was a writer on set, and so they tried stuff, but generally I would say maybe 5% of the ad libs survived into the cut, yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Is that show based on a UK show?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That’s right.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah, okay.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
The BBC show is in the second season only, and CBS bought it and remade it with most of the same characters, but a few sort of more American?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Americanized, yeah.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
They do that with everything.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah, basically. Basically, yeah. But the two creators, very smart guys, very funny guys. They did New Girl and they’re really sharp and they have a good crew. But the actors are really amazing. And the crew in Montreal is spectacular. They rebuilt the whole house that they had made, that was a set in LA and they made it here in Montreal, and it looks amazing, I think, better than the pilot. So yeah, it’s really, really good.

Sarah Taylor:
Farid is asking, “What software did you train on before applying for jobs?” He says, “I heard Premiere for small productions and Avid for big ones. What do you suggest?” I cut Premiere, but I’ve worked on all of them. I think it’s good to know all of them.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah, I think that’s my advice, is know as much as you can. There’s always, “Avid’s the best,” or “Premiere is the best.” But for me, it’s like, no, it’s all going to churn out the same exact product, it’s you, it’s you that’s pressing the buttons, and that’s what creates the magic. But the more you know and feel comfortable about different software and different platforms, the better you’ll be when you do get a job. And you might not know everything about Avid, but at least if you’re familiar with it, then you can learn it. If you’re Premiere Pro proficient and you dive into Avid, you’ll learn what that language is and then you’ll pick it up and then away you go. So just don’t be intimidated by different technologies and things like that.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah, I think Premiere is great for productions that are sort of all in the box, so it’s really good to know that, especially if you’re starting out and you’re trying to build your reel and you’re going to be the whole show. Avid, it’s just for big series and stuff, it’s just a much more solid platform in terms of the file management and everything. It’s just for me, much more reliable.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
When I’m on a scripted, I’m on Avid, when I’m on docs, I’m on Premiere. That’s the way I like to work. Although with Script Sync, I want to try Avid and docs using that?[inaudible 01;30;03;23]

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I’m going to blow all your minds.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Oh yes.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I cut Final Cut Pro.

Sarah Taylor:
No.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Oh, no.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And I have forever.

Sarah Taylor:
Final Cut X or whatever it’s called?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Seven?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Ten?

Sarah Taylor:
Ten?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
X, yeah. Nope.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Seven.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Seven, I started with it-

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, I was a seven before too.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Me too.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I started when it was a Beta, and then I went to all the way up to X. And I do have Avid, I do have Premiere, and I do have DaVinci.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
But I’m way faster in Final Cut.

Sarah Taylor:
Okay. Tell us, why did you stay? Not that it’s bad, I’m just curious.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Why?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Why did I stay in it?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Annie, why?

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, I know it’s gotten better. Obviously, I haven’t tried it.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Well, there definitely are limitations and stuff, but when they introduced roles in Final Cut, that just sealed it for me, because I could do multiple outputs and just from one timeline turn off the other roles, and they’re just gone, done. And for me, the turnaround is much faster with our workflow and stuff.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That makes sense.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
The Premiere has a lot of things going for it, but I also don’t like paying for software over and over and over. I have one account and everyone’s using that Final Cut, and I haven’t had to pay for Final Cut ever since I bought X way back in the day.

Sarah Taylor:
Right.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And now it’s like $300 or something. It’s really cheap.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
That’s what it was when I bought it.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Okay. Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And it’s what? I don’t know. I think when-

Sarah Taylor:
That was 10 years ago, I feel like. It was a long time ago.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah, I think so.

Sarah Taylor:
Wow.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
But when I was starting out, I was on Media 100.

Sarah Taylor:
Me too.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Wow. I loved that.

Sarah Taylor:
You had two tracks.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah, the limitation, and then you’d export stuff-

Sarah Taylor:
You had two tracks and-

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And bring it back into the graphics stack to get it burnt?[inaudible 01;31;53;09].

Sarah Taylor:
There was no nesting or… What I remember when I found Final Cut, I think it was on Final Cut 3 and I’m like, “99 tracks of video.” And now I’m like, “Two tracks. I only use two tracks when I clean it up.” But yeah, oh, Media 100.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Amazing.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
So yes, I am using Final Cut, and I do pass it off to people onlining and sometimes I online my own stuff in DaVinci.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, so they worked out those kinks, kind of?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Not all of them.

Sarah Taylor:
Or you figured out the workaround?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. Which we do, I think we do in all of the softwares, there’s like, “Oh, it doesn’t do that, but I can do it this way.”

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
That’s right. Or you buy a third party program, that maps it out.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, Automatic Duck.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s what I used to use.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I haven’t used that in a while, but yeah, I remember Automatic Duck.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s how I talked to the Avid when I was on Final Cut Pro.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That’s right.

Sarah Taylor:
I love it. Is there one project or series or something that you’ve worked on in your career that has left a real lasting impression on you as a human or as an editor?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Good or bad impression?

Sarah Taylor:
Both. That could be… Yeah, take it in that direction. Why not? “I’ll never work with so-and-so again, because of this project.”

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
There was a director who would work with me, and when he wanted me to make a cut, he punched me in the arm.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
What?

Sarah Taylor:
That’s awful.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And that is definitely not a person I ever worked with again.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
No.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
There’s been directors who have like done the *snap* this and I stop. And I’m like, “Okay, no, that’s not happening. We’re not doing that.” But then they actually think that that’s okay, “Cut there.”

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Right now.

Sarah Taylor:
I had somebody who would stamp the desk, “Right here.”

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And they don’t realize there is a lag, you might do that, but when I hit the keyboard, it’s not going to be right there.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
No.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Any positive ones? End it on a positive note. I’m just kidding, Jeremy, you gave us good stuff, [inaudible 01;33;50;29].

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
I probably have a positive one somewhere, I know. I loved working on Durham County. I got to say, it was probably the first time where I was like, “Ooh, Canadian TV could be really good.” It was dark and terrible and you hated all the characters. But at the same time, I felt like it was the first show that I ever worked on where it was close to my sensibility and we could really dig in. And the filmmakers were very daring and everyone was on board. That was very inspiring to work on that show.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I was a fan of that show when that aired. I loved it.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Oh, thanks. Cool.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
A highlight for me was working on a show called the L Word.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Oh, it was great.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Oh, yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
The original series.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Right.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, it was so good.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Awesome.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I know it’s going back a few years, but when you’re working on something at the time, you kind of know it’s special. And I knew it was very special at the time, but as the years have gone further away from it, you look back going, “God, we were so fortunate to have that opportunity.” And just the filmmakers that we were introduced to that we would never in my lifetime, ever get a chance to meet and talk to and learn from. And it was treated very much like an independent film. The showrunner, Ilene Chaiken, she was really good about letting the directors have their cut, and it was a respected cut. It wasn’t like, “Okay, get out of the chair, next.” Which sometimes happens, as we all know. But it was a great filmmaking experience, and again, it was revolutionary for its time, now it’s not so much. But at the time it was incredible. And they had incredible-

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Absolutely.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Guests, appearances. It was iconic, and it was really a highlight for me.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
A highlight that I had, one of my most memorable ones was working on a documentary feature called David and Me. It was about, back in the eighties, a 16-year-old was convicted of murder and he was innocent. And so the director of the film befriended him, and as we were making his story, the director was actively investigating and trying to come up with new evidence to exonerate him. By the time our schedule ended, nothing new surfaced, so we had to end the film with him still in prison. And the film was released and the district attorney in New York City saw it and opened it back up, and a few months later he was released.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Wow.

Sarah Taylor:
Wow.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Not that it was the cause, not that it was the reason he was released, but they were like, “Okay, we got to look into this.” So they opened it up again and he became part of a series of all these wrongfully convicted kids back in the eighties that were then released. And actually the filmmakers went back, we shot his release and we recut the film with the new one at the end.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Oh, cool.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
So good.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah, so that was really just amazing, and we got to meet him. And it was such a personal story for the director and just the investment that the ownership everybody had that was working on it. And Rubin Carter was in it too, ?the Hurricane?.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Because he was a big champion of the guy. And yeah, so that was pretty special to be a part of.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
That’s when you’re making a difference.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I think we all want to work on things that affect people’s lives.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I did have a positive note, it took me a while to figure it out.

Sarah Taylor:
Last one. Let’s do it.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Okay.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Jeremy.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
For me, it was working with Cory Bowles on Black Cop.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Oh, yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
That was the first dramatic thing that I cut in many, many years.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Oh, wow.

Sarah Taylor:
It was so good. You did such a good job.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Well, it’s a lot of him, you got to know that if you know Cory, right? But just working with him and the way he works and the synergy that we could have, no ego, that is the best kind of cutting for me.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I’d love to have that on everything, where I do something, he does something, my assistant cut a scene that he watched it. It was just everyone’s in it to win it.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
That’s good stuff.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s the best one, when everybody’s egos are out of the game. We’re just there to create the best that the piece can be.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, it feels so good. Feels so good. Well, on that note, thank you everybody for joining tonight. This has been an awesome conversation. And thanks for all the people here that asked questions, and I hope everybody took a little bit of something with them. And maybe one day soon we can all get together in real life.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That would be great.

Sarah Taylor:
That would be amazing.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I know.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Thanks.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
It was so nice talking to you guys.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
It was great to meet all of you.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah, really.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Getting different perspectives from across the country, which is really cool.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, yeah. No matter where you are, you can do it. You can get a job. Just put yourself out there. You can do it. Awesome.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Thank you, Sarah.

Sarah Taylor:
Okay.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
You did a great job.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, thank you.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Thanks, Sarah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yes. Thanks, Sarah.

Sarah Taylor:
Bye everybody. Have a good night. Thanks, everybody. Bye.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
All right.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Good night.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Take care.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Thank you.

Sarah Taylor:
Thank you so much for joining us today, and a big thanks goes out to Annie, Jeremy, Lisa, and Roderick. Special thanks goes to Kimberlee McTaggart, CCE and Alison Dowler. The main title sound design was created by Jane Tattersall. ADR recording by Andrea Rusch. Original music by Chad Blain and Soundstring. This episode was mixed and mastered by Tony Bao.

The CCE has been supporting Indspire, an organization that provides funding and scholarships for indigenous post-secondary students. We have a permanent portal on our website at cceditors.ca. Or you can donate directly to indspire.ca, I-N-D-S-P-I-R-E dot C-A. The CCE is taking steps to build a more equitable ecosystem within our industry, and we encourage our members to participate in any way they can. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends to tune in. Till next time, I’m your host, Sarah Taylor.

[Outro]
The CCE is a nonprofit organization with the goal of bettering the art and science of picture editing. If you wish to become a CCE member, please visit our website, www.cceditors.ca. Join our great community of Canadian editors for more related info.

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Catégories
Événements passés

Être monteur·euse au Canada

Être monteur·euse au Canada
2 novembre 2021

Cet événement a eu lieu le 2 novembre 2021

Presented in English / Conférence en anglais

Une conversation avec des monteur·euse·s de partout au Canada. Joignez-vous à nous le 2 novembre alors que nous allons inviter des monteur·euse·s de partout au pays pour discuter de leur travail et de comment il peut être différent (ou semblable) en fonction de leurs régions. Nos invité·e·s seront de tous les horizons, de tous les domaines et de tous les genres de l’univers du montage.

Parmi les invité·e·s, il y aura Roderick Deogrades, CCE (CHAPELWAITE), de l’Ontario, Annie Ilkow, CCE (GHOSTS), du Québec, Jeremy Harty, CCE (TRAILER PARK BOYS), de la Nouvelle-Écosse, Lisa Binkley, CCE (ZOMBIES 3), de la Colombie-Britannique et Sarah Taylor (THE LAST BARON), de l’Alberta.

Annie Ilkow is a Montreal-based editor whose recent work includes Ghosts (CBS, single-camera comedy), TRANSPLANT (2 seasons, for NBC/CTV), and BLOOD & TREASURE (2 seasons, CBS action-adventure). She also edited the critically-acclaimed drama 19-2, the seminal DURHAM COUNTY. A graduate of the film program at Concordia University, she earned her MFA in Cinema at the University of East Anglia, UK. 

Born in BC, Raised in NS, calls Halifax home since 1998. Met Mike Clattenburg and edited his low budget feature TRAILER PARK BOYS in 1999. Since then has been doing anything TRAILER PARK BOYS related. Started editing things with Cory Bowles whenever our schedules allowed. Married with three kids and owns and operates Digiboyz Inc. (Post Production) since 2001.

lisa binkleyAward winning film and television editor Lisa Binkley began her career in post-production after having studied theatre and film production at U.B.C. She graduated from the Media Resources Program at Capilano University. Since then she has worked on numerous feature films, MOWs and television series.

Her work was recognized when she received a Gemini Award (CSA) for her editing of the mini-series, HUMAN CARGO. This Canadian/South African co-production was directed by Brad Turner (HOMELAND & 24) and it received 17 Gemini Nominations and also won a Peabody Award.

Her work on MGM’s critically acclaimed science fiction series, THE OUTER LIMITS and Showtime’s, THE L WORD (Written and produced by by Ilene Chaiken) has given Lisa the opportunity to work with such directors as Marlee Gorris (Academy Award Winner – ANTONIA’S LINE), Moises Kaufman (THE LARAMIE PROJECT), Helen Shaver (VIKINGS), Lynne Stopkewich (KISSED), and Kimberley Peirce (BOYS DON’T CRY).

She is currently working on ZOMBIES 3 for Disney+, directed by Paul Hoen.

Lisa is a full member of IATSE 891, ACFC West and is a voting member of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.  In 2008, she was inducted as a full member into the Canadian Cinema Editors (CCE) honourary society.

Roderick is an award-winning Picture and Sound Editor who has worked in the film industry for over twenty years. His extensive knowledge of both sides of the post equation has proven invaluable. His experience in feature films, TV series, shorts and documentaries has established him as one of the industry’s most sought-after collaborators. On the picture side, he is known for his work on STILL MINE (2012), VICTORIA DAY (2009) and ONE WEEK (2008). For television, he has edited THE EXPANSE (Season 3 to 6), KILLJOYS (Season 4 & 5), and Chapelwaite (2021). He picture edited acclaimed documentaries such as 100 FILMS & A FUNERAL (2007), THE GHOSTS IN OUR MACHINE (2013), DAVID & ME (2014) and SILAS (2017). His sound editing work includes SPLICE (2009), PASSCHENDAELE (2008) and SILENT HILL (2006). He is currently picture editing the series BILLY THE KID.

Sarah Taylor is an award-winning editor with over eighteen years of experience. She has a passion for storytelling and has cut a wide range of documentaries, corporate videos, television programs, and full length feature films. Her work has been seen in festivals around the world including Sundance. She is a member of the Directors Guild of Canada (DGC) and is the host of the CCE podcast The Editor's Cut.

À propos de l'événement

November 2, 2021

en ligne

Catégories
The Editors Cut

Episode 043: In Conversation with Jeremy Harty, CCE & Cory Bowles on the film Black Cop

he Editors Cut - Episode 043

Episode 43: In Conversation with Jeremy Harty, CCE & Cory Bowles on the film Black Cop

This episode is the online master series that took place on July 21st, 2020.

This episode was generously Sponsored by Filet Production Services & Annex Pro/Avid

The Editors Cut - Episode 043 - Black Cop group photo

The CCE partnered with BiPOC TV and film to bring you In Conversation with Jeremy Harty, CCE and Cory Bowles about the movie Black Cop. On its release in 2017, Black Cop garnered critical acclaim as an unapologetic challenge of race and police. With a range of visuals from body cam to camera phones – dash cam to traditional camera work, Black Cop made use of multiple techniques to bring a fast paced hyper connected narrative to life. Edited by Jeremy Harty, CCE and was the directorial debut for Cory Bowles. 

This event was moderated by Shonna Foster.

Écoutez maintenant

Sarah Taylor:

This episode was generously sponsored by Filet Production Services and Annex Pro Avid. Hello and welcome to the Editor’s Cut. I’m your host Sarah Taylor. We would like to point out that the lands on which we have created this podcast and that many of you may be listening to us from are part of ancestral territory. It is important for all of us to deeply acknowledge that we are on ancestral territory that has long served as a place where indigenous peoples have lived, met, and interacted.

Sarah Taylor:

We honor, respect, and recognize these nations that have never relinquished their rights or sovereign authority over the lands and waters on which we stand today. We encourage you to reflect on the history of the land, the rich culture, the many contributions, and the concerns that impact indigenous individuals and communities. Land acknowledgements are the start to a deeper action.

Sarah Taylor:

Today’s episode is the online master series that took place on July 21st, 2020. CCE partnered with BIPOC TV and Film to bring you in conversation with Jeremy Harty CCE and Cory Bowles about the movie Black Cop. On its release in 2017, Black Cop garnered critical acclaim as an unapologetic challenge of race and police. With a range of visuals from body cam to camera phones, cam dash, to traditional camera work, Black Cop made use of multiple techniques to bring a fast-paced hyper-connected narrative to life.

Sarah Taylor:

Black Cop was edited by Jeremy Harty CCE. It was the directorial debut for Cory Bowles. This panel was moderated by Shonna Foster.

[show open]

Shonna Foster:

Thank you, everybody, for joining us today. Of course thank you, Cory and Jeremy and the CCE for hosting this. I’m very excited. It’s my first time moderating something. See how it goes.

Jeremy Harty:
My first time attending one, so.

Shonna Foster:

Excellent. We’re in the same boat, Jeremy. I guess I’m going to assume maybe that everybody’s watched the movie, but for those who haven’t, my little spiel about Black Cop is it’s a film which explores racial profiling and police violence through its main character Black Cop played beautifully by Ronnie Rowe, who goes through an entire work shift interacting with people and choosing to treat white civilians that he encounters the way that black people are often treated by the police.

Shonna Foster:

The film incorporates archival footage, as well as dash cam, body cam, and cell phone footage to tell the story almost entirely from the POV of Black Cop. What I most appreciate about this film is how

unapologetic it is and how it’s strategic and unconventional in the way that it handles insular moments of Black Cop. Just a black man, in general, moving to the world, whether he’s in uniform or not.

Shonna Foster:

I love that Black Cop truly takes up the space in this film, and that it’s us, like we’re invited to live in his head and in his car and in his space and experience his life through his own vantage point as we go on this journey with him. I guess we can start there, a kind of two-part question. So a lot of the film is internal dialogue and monologue. Those are several moments where he’s speaking directly to camera and I guess I would like to know what challenges did this present in the editing process?

Shonna Foster:

In discussing that, did you craft the story around the running monologue when you were in the cutting room and how did that all go down?

Jeremy Harty:

Really, this is Cory’s vision, so I went with his lead. There were times where we were doing little bits and messing around on certain sections, because he had a copy of all the footage and I had a copy of all the footage. We came to certain things that maybe my perspective being a white male, being out of the process I could ask him things, because I haven’t lived the life of a black person in these troubling times and stuff. I had to like fall back on him.

Jeremy Harty:

I’d like to think, maybe, that sometimes I could bring a different perspective to certain things too. It was a good collaboration though, I think. I’m not really great at answering questions, because I don’t get out much. I stay here behind my desk and I’ve got a wall of monitors here and a desk that rises, so when people come in the room they can’t see me and this is new for me.

Cory Bowles:
That’s true about the wall. There’s a wall just behind you.

Jeremy Harty: Yeah.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. It was a really good collaborative process. I find it when I’ll explain certain things to Jeremy and I have a hard time articulating exactly what it is that I want. So, a lot of times we’ll play around and he might say, “Well, why don’t you show me kind of what you want with an edit?” Then, he’ll take it and sort of tighten it, flip it, turn it, give me some things, and then I find a lot of the discovery of the piece, obviously, for anyone that’s interested in making films, a lot of the movie is built, that’s your third part, basically, your edit is making sometimes a whole new movie.

Cory Bowles:

So, with this one it’s always surprising and we really push each other to get something new. It always changes as well, because we had such good performances by Ronnie, we were like, “How do we

enhance his performance and pull it out even more?” It can get frustrating, because you have all these great options when you have-

Jeremy Harty:

A lot of great options. This is the first dramatic piece that I’ve done that’s been this long, and seeing Ronnie on camera and seeing all the dailies and stuff, it was really nice to have the options that we had. Even when he’s not speaking his face is just speaking volumes. He’s just got that presence of him. It’s really strong, really strong. Amazing casting, so lucky to get him. But Cory has that ability of… He’s worked with enough different people in all the aspects of his life that he can bring them in when he has a project and this was the big first one. Hopefully, not the last.

Shonna Foster:

Not at all. Off that note, Jeremy, so Cory, he described your relationship as one where you both push each other as much as you can in the process. He shared with me that you are a cinephile who will often use references from classic movies to inform your process, and that you also do research on films that a director likes. What were some of the references you may have used for this film and from those references, what are the elements that would have influenced cutting this film?

Jeremy Harty:

Really, Cory’s the lead for that. I like to watch a lot of different films, and basically, because I’m cutting comedy all the time, I find that watching more and more comedy, so it doesn’t really relate to this, but when Cory says, “Okay. There’s this film, there’s this scene that I’d like to talk about. They did this and that film.”

Jeremy Harty:

I would go with him and whatever library of stuff he was talking about, I tried to watch them all again just to get a refresher of what’s going on. There’s so many things you can cherry pick little bits from other films that are out there and stuff. I really just look to him for that kind of stuff.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, I like to noodle things in the suite and mess around. I’m trying not to curse here. I tend to curse like a sailor. But I’m pulling it back as best possible. There’s certain things… One memory I have is I was listening to different songs on iTunes one day while I was cutting and looking through dailies and stuff, and a song was recommended in my iTunes list, and I really gravitated towards it.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, I played it to Cory and he was like… You should tell the story, man, because you got the connection there.

Shonna Foster: Yeah.

Cory Bowles:
Which one is it? You had a lot of songs lined-

Jeremy Harty:
Well, it’s the Zeal & Ardor stuff.

Cory Bowles:
Oh, yeah. Well, I loved Zeal & Ardor too. It was like-

Jeremy Harty:

But I’ve never known about them that like from you and I just heard them by chance in my iTunes stream.

Cory Bowles:

Right. Yeah. They ended up basically almost soundtracking the whole movie. I just reached out to them and asked if I could use a song, and then Aaron took over, our producer, and was like, “Let’s get a jam.” All of a sudden we had… His whole album was ours for free almost. I think we made them take money from us. They were giving it to us for free.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. I guess was that [inaudible 00:08:00]. I mean there’s so many music stories, I didn?t even know that one. I just remember when you were throwing me like beans and cornbread, some other tunes like-

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. Well, how did I get that in my head? I don’t know. It’s been a while like the Zeal & Ardor stuff is really what struck me, and then we’ve had… There were other sections that we tried some of their other songs and they stuck into. Then, you had some other songs that you were working on because you write and you do your own stuff too.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. It’s funny because I remember going after Charles Bradley song for the very first part. It was how long for the… I remember not being able to let go of that song. I remember calling up, at that time, we were so excited, because we were just calling up people out of the blue and being like, “Can we use your songs?” Explain in the thing.

Cory Bowles:

People are like, “Yeah. Sure, man.” Publishing is going to be cool with it. If anyone makes a movie, and it’s really hard to secure music. We didn’t have the time or the money to actually like… We had a music supervised. We didn’t really have the time or money to go through these insane label contracts. We were just like, “Look, can you like… We will give you kit back, whatever you need, but can we use the song?” I remember that how long song at the beginning, I was so married to it-

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. You had it in the cut for a while, man. You were like not letting go. You’re like, “Oh, we’re going to get it. We’re going to get it.”

Cory Bowles:

Then, they-

Jeremy Harty:
Let’s have an alternate.

Cory Bowles:

… they stayed shape. They’re like, “Yeah. We want 35k for the song.” I was like, “Well, that’s more than my lead actor is going to make and that’s like one third-“

Jeremy Harty:
That’s more than the post budget.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. He’s like, “[inaudible 00:09:30] part of my movie?” I was like, “Take a hike, man. Give it to us for free if you’re going to be like that much. I’ll give you some…” They were like, no. Then, I was… Zeal & Ardor to the rescue. It actually ended up being a stronger song with black spiritual death metal. It was really nice. It’s always fun when we lay music in to tracks. We always experiment quite a bit.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. Like in the workout scene, just like changing the cuts a few frames here to land on certain beats and stuff like that. Sometimes I’m not 100% sure whether or not my system is perfectly in sync. I’m looking to Cory saying, “Does that seem like bang on to the beat for you and, or on the offbeat?”

Jeremy Harty:

I’m not musically inclined, but Cory was like, “Dude, you got that on the offbeat.” I’m like, “I don’t know what the heck you’re talking about, man. I just cut it because it kind of worked for me. That’s it.” But that was a fun scene. Yeah. I also have a copy of the film here if you want me to pull up anything too, Cory. We can show people or two.

Cory Bowles:
Oh, yeah. Oh, you know what? If you want to show the workout scene, that’s great.

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah. We can show anything, man.

Shonna Foster:
We could show the whole movie.

Cory Bowles:

This was right after he gets profiled. So, this is like the sort of triggering incident in the movie where a Black Cop gets profiled, if anyone hasn’t seen it. Then, after he stands for… We have a two-minute scene where he’s just standing and he’s recollecting, and it’s everything coming to a head, and then the next scene we show him venting out his energy and we put it on…

Cory Bowles:

Actually, the first song we got for Zeal & Ardor, which is the Devil is Fine. Which we even named our company after the song. Yeah. This was a fun one to cut and play music to. It was a really strong scene.

Jeremy Harty:
I have it kind of queued up here.

Speaker 12:
[crosstalk 00:11:14] (singing)

Speaker 13:
My dad used to say that a change in attitude is due to blacks-

Shonna Foster:
Can we talk a little bit about the scene before the one going, the one where he gets profiled?

Jeremy Harty: Yeah.

Shonna Foster:

Can you talk a little bit about cutting that process? What’s very interesting about this scene is you don’t really see the cops who… We never see the cops who stop him in full, and can you talk a little bit about that choice and what it was like cutting that? Because there’s focus on elements of them, but we never get to experience who those men are, we’re really focused on just Black Cop himself, and so how did you choose, Cory, the things you were going to focus on in that scene?

Cory Bowles: Okay.

Shonna Foster:
Like hands and radios and these sorts of things.

Cory Bowles:

Sure. That whole scene is an example of the collaboration of the whole team. I had a certain way that I knew what I wanted going into that scene, and the main thing I wanted was to focus on his confusion, the frustration, the fear, and what it’s like in that moment and how where someone is like, “Oh, you’re just being pulled over by the police.”

Cory Bowles:

It’s like, no, what’s really happening to you at that moment and what’s that, so many things. So my original way I wanted to shoot it was just basically never seeing the cops. I always just wanted to keep it on him. I wanted to do the thing where I pushed in close. The cinematographer, Jeff Wheaton, who had come with this scene. We need to do really extreme close-ups. We need really hard stuff.

Cory Bowles:

He’s like, “I want to slow down the frames. I want to like really pop in.” Then, we were able to sort of… Once I knew what he was trying to interpret, I was like, “Okay. We went with him and we just played that night.” It was a lot of times where I’d be like never put this person in focus. We’d be like pop into the mouth, get the car.

Cory Bowles:

Then, I think we ran the scene quite a long time. It was really challenging. When it came time to cut, that’s where it was like, “Okay. We’re going to from a nice free scene into something really claustrophobic and something panicky.” We played with that, actually, in different cities. Yeah. We spent a long time-

Jeremy Harty:
There was a lot on that one. Yeah.

Cory Bowles:

It might have been the first scene, the first actual thing we really spent time on cutting in the movie, I think, when I went to Calgary.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. That was one of those scenes that kept on getting reworked, because there was certain elements that we’re just missing the focus here or you want to make the tension a little bit more, so you want to use this shot and insert something else. Man, I just remember the last shot of him just putting the earbuds on. That was a conversation you and I had a lot of times about keeping that one shot for the whole way.

Jeremy Harty:

I was like, “No, man. It’s killing me. It’s strong. But it’s like so much time where nothing really changed.” That’s a different decision that really pays off when you’re in the theater. The uncomfortable silence and awkwardness of that long shot, but I had digitally pushed in on parts of it, try to change it up, try to jump cut parts just so that one shot, the top of that whole scene is like mostly Cory coming back with a note here.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, we try something else or trim a few frames here and there. There’s a lot of messing with frames just to get it where it is now I guess.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. I learned a lot. I learned so much just on that scene alone. I still have the old cut of it and comparing to what I built and was like, “Here, I want something like this.” I’m looking at it now I’m like, “Oh, my god. I should never make a movie again.”

Jeremy Harty:
No. It’s a team effort, man. It’s a team effort.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. For anyone watching the long scene, if you haven’t seen what Jeremy’s talking about, it’s after the profiling scene which is tension, tension, tension. We just have a shot where we linger on him and it’s the aftermath of the scene, and we hang there close to… Almost two and a half minutes. We just use a build of music and Ronnie’s acting, he made a choice.

Cory Bowles:

I said, “Take your time with what you want to do in this.” He took his time. He played it real. He didn’t do what I was expecting to do, which I thought he was going to freak out or something or do some sort of… He went so far away from that, that it was actually perfect, and that scene that we did, there was a lot of big debate on it.

Cory Bowles:

It was one of those things where it was so real and raw, I didn’t want to change it, but I was really scared. I remember being worried about that shot, because I was like, “How are people going to watch this for two minutes?” But then the reactions came in and Chicago, there were some men crying during that scene because they had that experience as well. That’s when I was like, “Okay. We made the right choice.” It was a risk, like Jeremy said that paid off.

Jeremy Harty:

That’s an example of what I was saying earlier where I don’t have those experiences, so I have to fall back on Cory for that to really understand how impactful that will be to the black community or people that have been racially profiled, because I’m a white male. I’ve been blessed in that regard. I just haven’t had to deal with that, but that long awkwardness and his brain just processing what just happened.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, he just kind of like switches and jogs off, but then, obviously, it’s still affecting him because that’s the rest of the whole film, right?

Shonna Foster:
Jeremy, do you go on set?

Jeremy Harty:
Did I go on set? Yeah.

Shonna Foster:
Do you go on every day?

Jeremy Harty:

Ah, no. Not every day. I think I was still working on this other show at one point. I can’t remember, but they were shooting in my neighborhood because Halifax is relatively small. I think I walked down from my house, one or two days on set and just checking it out, make sure they’re going to get it all. Like I have any power there, but I did it. Show the team that we’re in it together, because most people don’t see the editor, right?

Shonna Foster:

Cory, do you guys work in that you’ll take the pass, and then Cory will give notes or are you in the room together in the end? Can you talk a little bit about your process, how you work together?

Jeremy Harty:
It’s kind of all of it, right?

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. I think there’s a question here that is on that vein as well.

Jeremy Harty:

Yes. Cory was in the edit suite sitting like two feet from me. That’s not going to happen now with COVID. We were working, and then at some points he was working wherever he was traveling around the world doing his thing. I was locked here in my little room and sending files back and forth. I’d tweak a scene or whatever, send it off to him see what he thought. Got his notes, take another crack at it and stuff, and then he’d come in and we…

Jeremy Harty:
Did we sit and watch the whole thing a few times here in Halifax?

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. By the building when I watched cuts, so I remember pacing and Jeremy’s all being like, “It’s going to be fine and-“

Jeremy Harty:
Cory is like that in general though. He’s got energy that I just don’t have, so.

Cory Bowles:

Well, I’ll tell you with Jeremy, as a director, I will say I’m really, really fortunate because most directors want to be involved in the edit, for sure. I want to be right in there, but you have to give trust to your editor as well. He presents you something, he always has to explain to me like… I always have to explain to other people when I’m mentoring at CFC or something. It’s like, “Never worry about your first cut.” Because he’s like, “This is just an assembly pen. This is to show you what you have and we’re going to work through from there.”

Cory Bowles:

A lot of times what I find Jeremy does, which is a natural thing that I don’t really get from another editor is that he’ll say, “Why don’t you have a crack at cutting the scene?” It’s not judgmental on how I’ll cut it, because I cut it terribly. I don’t know how to use the software so good and I’ll send it back and he’ll be like, “Okay. Let’s now let’s tweak it. Let’s work it.” Me takes that and adds in something, and then we really start to cook. A lot of times by him allowing me that freedom to sort of explain what I’m looking for, really helps, because a lot of times as directors, we can’t articulate like an editor.

Cory Bowles:

We can think about the edit, but to actually specifically articulate something to someone, and then someone to present it back to you, you can get locked in just sitting down and going, “Well, I’ll settle for it because I don’t know.” But Jeremy’s always like, “What do you want?” Let’s look at what you want and let’s see what you can play with. I really appreciate [crosstalk 00:20:28]

Jeremy Harty:

Thanks, man. But it’s really hard… I can relate. It’s hard to convey a thought sometimes, just articulating it with words. I really enjoy the process of just noodling stuff, throwing it around, and if Cory has the same access to the same footage as I do, and he can put it in an order that I haven’t thought of, why would I get upset, right?

Jeremy Harty:

It’s his project. It’s his vision. I’m there to help with other stages that maybe he has some difficulty with, and at the end of the day, it is a team effort. If he comes away after cutting something feeling self-conscious about it and I go, “No. No, man. That worked.”

Jeremy Harty:

But I have the same problem too. There’s scenes I cut and I was like, “I don’t know about this, man.” He goes, “No. It’s great.” Or that, “No. That’s it. That’s it.” Then, we work from there.

Jeremy Harty:

Another thing that we did was he shot a lot of little stuff in the black box, the mic drop is what I’m thinking of Cory. You had the footage of the mic being picked up, him using the mic, dropping the mic. I think at one stage, it wasn’t fully finished. It just didn’t feel like it was its own thing. Then, I was like, “What if he dropped the mic?” Correct me if I’m wrong because I’m going by memory and it’s a little ways ago. I’ve had kids since then and all sorts of stuff, brain just gets mushy at some point.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. You were talking about when you move the mic scene around.

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah. Because we tried to like bookend that into the film its own way.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. Well, I mean you did that a lot. You did a lot of little things that really sort of popped. I mean some of the other things too was I’m really about having a lot of space in the scene. I want to have space and I want to have time and I want to have beats, but we also have to keep the scene moving. I found that I would…

Cory Bowles:

This is where things I don’t know as the directors are so good at going, “Okay. We could keep your space, but we can tighten up this.” We like to work on an intensity graph through a scene that kind of has ups and downs and a lot of slopes in it and I find that I can cut a sort of dynamic scene, but the meat’s not there and that’s where when we get together and we start digging things and Jeremy will

suggest something, move something around and we solved a lot of problems in the edit room, because the other thing about shooting a movie like this, and Andrew to your question about spending time.

Cory Bowles:

I spend a lot of time as much as I can with Jeremy, and it’s so exciting when you go away from a room and you see us, you get something back. That’s like one of the… Regardless if it’s good, it’s just exciting to get something back, because you live with it and it’s daunting. It’s really hard, but I find… I was going to say one thing that happens when we play, we solve a lot of problems in the set that we… There’s a lot of things that aren’t necessarily going to work in the movie and you have to build it from scratch in the edit.

Cory Bowles:

That’s what I think we do. We’ve always done well together was create things when we just had no scene at all, like nothing was going to work and we made it work.

Jeremy Harty:

There are still examples of things where, because it was only shot within what? 12 days. There was one shot I was like I really wish we had, but we just didn’t have the opportunity of when a white cop gets his uniform taken, you remember that, Cory? I was like-

Cory Bowles: I sure do.

Jeremy Harty:

I just want to see him in the garbage naked or in his underwear, whatever, but I just wanted to see that visual. We just… One, you’re asking a lot for the actor to do that, and the time frame to do that and would it have been the best use of our time to get that one shot or to go out and shoot an insert or whatever? But, yeah, you can get bogged down by those kind of wish lists, but then you start thinking of other things to help solve that problem. That’s one of the reasons why I like editing, because you really do get to shaped the whole film. I also color correct. We’re tweaking stuff and trying to make things punch and fix issues.

Cory Bowles:

What did we have for the first kind of the movie was like, an hour? Like 66 minutes or something like that, right?

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah. One shortcut and it was like, “What else is going to go in this film, Cory? I don’t know…” But you-

Cory Bowles:
I was like, “My career is over.”

Jeremy Harty:

No. But that was a problem solving… You had to solve that problem, so you were forced into it. You already had the idea of having the radio through stuff, but then some of the narration, some of the black box stuff, doing a little montage helps pepper that in throughout and it helps too.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, those cards with the white text, you had two or three different versions, different quotes, at one point it’s like, “No. We can’t go with that quote. We’re going with this quote.” I’m like, “All right. Does that work now or does that make it better? I’m lost. I don’t know anymore.” Spending so much time in the edit suite too, at some point, I could see Cory’s point about being away from the edit, coming back and seeing something that’s like fresh eyes.

Jeremy Harty:

I think that’s important too. We did have a little break here and there where we were busy with other things, and then came back to finishing Black Cop or working on another scene or-

Shonna Foster:

I know the film started as a short. Cory, did you make it with the intent to make it into a feature? Did you know making the short that you were going to make a feature film?

Cory Bowles:

Yes and no. Originally, I conceived it as a feature back in 2014 maybe, and then I did the short in 2015. I kind of just thought that was it. It was a very… But the thing I was like, “I need to do now.” I think I went and shot it at a weekend that we were doing [inaudible 00:26:01] boys went home, shot it, and then grabbed the GoPro.

Cory Bowles:

I think it was the following year, coming through the following year when I figured… I was actually told by a few people that, and a friend of mine, Nelson, Nelson McDonald who said, “Yo, I think they should be actually expanded. So if you know what you think you want to say.” Because I talked about it. I talked about the character and why he did what he did in the short film.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. It kind of came back around to the feature, but I didn’t expect it. It was kind of an unexpected thing to happen. Suddenly, I was paired up with Aaron and we were going to write a movie… I was going to write this film, we were going to go after it, and suddenly, we were doing it. I had another project that I was trying to do too, actually, and then this one just swept everything else away.

Shonna Foster:
Yes. Is your project’s still going to get made?

Jeremy Harty:
I’m hoping these projects get made. Maybe I can hang out with him again. I don’t know.

Shonna Foster:

I’m going to pull a question from the Q&A. Did you have test screenings with friends and family and crew before picture lock?

Jeremy Harty:
I think there were quite a few people watching it, weren’t there?

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. We are like a tight-knit group. I’m really afraid of that. This is going to sound really funny, but I only showed it to, personally, myself. I only showed it to a few people. I tend to not believe what my team says, and that’s not that I don’t trust them. It’s like Aaron, the producer is like, “It’s looking good.” I’m like, “You’re lying.” I don’t like-

Jeremy Harty: He does say that.

Cory Bowles:

I shout to my partner or you show it to a couple of close friends. I think I showed it to my friend, Mark Claremo. I sent it to Clark Johnson as well, but that’s generally about it. Mostly because I’m really afraid of it. So, even like I’m so afraid to do it. I don’t want to know. I don’t care if they show it, but I’m like I don’t-

Jeremy Harty:

I’m a little different with my assistant editors or people I’m working with in the building. I’ll show them scenes, but I won’t show them the whole thing, mostly because we’re not there yet, and when we were close to picture lock, I don’t know if I showed them the whole film then, because there’s still things that were going to be worked out or the color timing would be done.

Jeremy Harty:

I felt strongly that if we had too much input from people who weren’t in the whole part of the process, it might get watered down or there might be weird notes that come out of nowhere. Dealing with broadcasters, and then broadcaster goes, “Yeah. Do you have any takes where they say these lines?” You’re like, “What do you mean these lines? Like now? We’ve already locked the picture. Like you want to rework a whole scene? No. We don’t.” That’s what we got to work with so… That’s the fear that I have by bringing in a bunch of people and saying, “Okay.”

Jeremy Harty:

They’ll watch the cut, and then they’ll be like, “Yeah. What if you had this shot? What if you had that shot?” This a small budget, 12-day shoot, and this is what we got. We’re making it work and it worked with this one I think.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. I’m of two minds of that. I think in some cases you need to have test screenings and you need to do those things, but in some cases when you’re doing a project that’s like, it’s you’re doing a different thing, you’re doing something that’s like… In one case, it was like, “We really couldn’t care. We had to actually be like…” It just has to be really good, it has to flow well and it has to be honest.

Cory Bowles:

We tried to stay away from anything that was like, “Well, this doesn’t work because the rule is…” Sometimes, if you get into too much of that type of viewing, that people don’t understand rules. We were doing something that, at the time, we were like, “We don’t want this to be conventional in any way. We just want you to be affected by it when you see it.”

Cory Bowles:
It’s a challenge, but I do believe in testing. Just that was a tough one for me. I’d give-

Jeremy Harty: [crosstalk 00:29:45]

Cory Bowles:
It was so hard to even hit the send button when I showed someone the link.

Shonna Foster:

It does seem like a challenge though because the film is unconventional, because you both seem to work that way. Navigating notes from producers, how do you go about that when you’re getting… Did you get a lot of notes back from producers as you were going and-

Jeremy Harty:

We got notes. I get notes from a co-worker, and then I found myself saying, “Well, you’re not really seeing it from Cory’s perspective, right? It was the confrontation, the Skittle scene or however you want to refer to it with the big fence that shot. There were a lot of people in my shop they were like, “That shot so long.”

Jeremy Harty:

I was like, “Oh…” That’s why I did other versions, because I was so listening to them, and at some point I just had to step back and go like, “You got to trust Cory and Ronnie. That they did that shot, they want that length, and everyone else their perspective is valid, but we have to push something.

Jeremy Harty:

To me, that’s one of those shots that’s really pushing that urge of an editor to cut. There’s some people that just cut every three seconds. It doesn’t matter. It’s like cutting cut, cut, cut, angle, angle, angle, angle, angle. And to fight those urges of just cutting the shot, it’s hard. It’s a hard thing to do. Trusting the process and getting people’s notes is important.

Jeremy Harty:

I want to know why I have to defend it sometimes, but then with this project, I’m kind of just along for the ride with Cory.

Cory Bowles:
Oh, stop. That’s funny. Because I trust so much of what he does… But I’ll tell you on top of that-

Jeremy Harty:
We got so much history too. That’s probably why. We’ve known each other since ’99, ’98, ’99.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah, and we had on top of that, we have one producer with Aaron. Aaron was always in the room, but Aaron as producer was totally like, he totally trusted us too. He’s just like, “Yeah. I think this…” Any time he did give a note, it was… It’s like one of those things where you… He’s like that player, you bring him to take the shot right at the buzzer who knows that they’re going to hit the shot at the buzzer.

Cory Bowles:

He’s one of those note givers. He drops the note when the note really needs to be given. It’s usually one that’s just like… For example, in that scene that we did in the fence, his note… I was ready to, because we had to send it off to Tiff, because we’ve been in at that time, but we had to give them the actual version.

Cory Bowles:

I wasn’t happy with the music we’d scored. We’ve done the improv score with the band. I just threw a piece in and Aaron had said, “I don’t think you’re happy.” I was like, “It doesn’t matter if I’m happy, we have to get it.” He goes, “Well, you’re not happy and this isn’t what you said you want to do.”

Cory Bowles:

I was like, “What am I supposed to do?” Then, he goes, “You’ll figure it out.” He left. [inaudible 00:32:30] I’m so mad. I was just like I wanted to go hit him. I was so angry I was like, “I can’t do this. We’re never going to do it in time.” Then, I ended up taking two pieces of different versions of the same song, flipping them, making stuff go backwards. I put up a mic and started doing my own vocal things in it.

Cory Bowles:

Then, I came back and he comes and listens. I show him the scene. He just goes like this. He’s like, “Yeah.”

Jeremy Harty:

Why didn?t it occur to me why you did the reaction? No one wants to see me watching you do the reaction.

Cory Bowles:
Oh, sorry. Anyway-

Jeremy Harty:
That’s bad editing right there.

Cory Bowles:

[crosstalk 00:33:02] you just did a head nod, but those notes, he would give us both. He was really trusting. It’s really important.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. He’s in the building where I am and I’ve been cutting and stuff. He could drop in any time. See what I’m working on, and see what it is. I could go to him and say, “Okay. I’ve retackled this. What do you think?” We’re not really hung up on a power struggle or anything, which is good. I think there’s too many people that get bogged down by that, and that’s the really great thing that Aaron brought to the project.

Jeremy Harty:
Ego could just put you in such a bad place. I don’t want to have a big ego, but I do sometimes.

Shonna Foster:

I’m going to pull another question from the Q&A. How did you time the scene where the student is in the distance and Black Cop shoots him with his finger as a gun? Very good question.

Jeremy Harty:
I was not on set that day so I don’t know how it was done, but I suspect I do know how it was done.

Shonna Foster: Share your secrets.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. That’s my dance background, timing, rhythm, and two really good actors with experience on stage and experience in blocking and timing where I could say, “Hey, you’re going to take… You’re going to run till you get to there.” Ronnie’s going to watch him go. He’s going to take a deep breath and shoot.

Cory Bowles:

That was sort of a thing that they were pretty linked up and you can, they felt it. We just ran it. They nailed it, and yeah. There was no sound effects or anything like that. It was one of those things where you… It’s so hard to say to an actor like when you get around this area, you have to feel like when you get hit.

Cory Bowles:

Then, the person shooting the person in the back, but they were on the same wavelength. That’s very much how dancers work, right? Dancers work with instincts and trying to feel each other’s time as you spread out. They just nailed that. Lots of rhythm. I like to work with-

Jeremy Harty:
I thought you had someone out on the side just waving them down to fall like an AD?

Cory Bowles: No.

Jeremy Harty:
You didn’t yell behind camera, fall?

Cory Bowles: No.

Jeremy Harty: No?

Cory Bowles: No.

Jeremy Harty: No?

Cory Bowles: No.

Jeremy Harty:
All right. That was what I was guessing.

Cory Bowles:

To be authentic you got… I mean sometimes if we were in TV, we would have to and AD would come over and be like, “Nope. You’re doing it this way. I have someone here. They’re going to get queued. Go back to the monitor. See you later.” Like by that. No. For this it was just the whole movie is as organic as possible, so.

Jeremy Harty:
What was the crew size? How many people were on the crew? I put you on the spot there.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. I want to say 20, maybe 22 max. Yeah. Because we had two camera assists, we had two electric, we have… We basically have two of everybody, except the hair and makeup, wardrobe, there’s three, and so I would say just around 20 max maybe.

Jeremy Harty:

What gets me is with all the different camera formats too, we had to worry about frame rates, aspect ratios, all that stuff, just the file formats themselves bringing them in to the system, I can only imagine how much pain in the butt it was on set having to chase cameras, getting them all set up with a smaller crew.

Shonna Foster:
What kind of camera did you shoot with?

Jeremy Harty: FS7, wasn’t it?

Cory Bowles: Yeah.

Jeremy Harty: Yeah. Sony FS7.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. Then, GoPros. GoPro Hero. Was the Hero 5 or 4?

Jeremy Harty:
I think it was 4 at that time. Yeah.

Cory Bowles:
Hero 4 and my iPhone.

Jeremy Harty: iPhone.

Cory Bowles: Yeah.

Jeremy Harty:
Did you have like a Samsung in there too or some other phone?

Cory Bowles:

No. I don’t think I used the… I thought I’d just use my phone. I might use something else, but, yeah, I think just those three. Then, yeah, the GoPros were all the dash cams as well.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. We tried to muddy up some of them to look a little bit different even though they were shot on some of the same cameras.

Shonna Foster:
I have a question for Jeremy.

Jeremy Harty: Oh, no.

Shonna Foster:
Did you go to film school?

Jeremy Harty:

I went to a community college taking radio and television broadcasting for two years. I was originally going to be in radio production. I was going to do commercials on tape to tape. That was my plan. Then, I asked one of the guys working at the local radio station how much they made per year, how long he’d been there. At that time he was there for maybe 15 years and he was making 38,000 a year. I said, “Okay. Screw this shit. I’m out.”

Jeremy Harty:

Luckily because of my program, we did journalism. We did radio, and we also did television. I just gravitated halfway through my first year into the television side of things, which really pissed off the radio teacher, because he thought he had another radio convert early on in the process, because that’s how I came into the program.

Jeremy Harty:

I’m just one of those guys with a blessed mind for tech. I started learning all the tapes and the systems. We had a non-linear system. It was a light wave I believe. It was just after the EditDroid. It was on an Amiga. It was cumbersome. Painful as hell, but it was dead when I got to the school and we resurrected it when I was there.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, I never used it because it sucked. I just really enjoyed the creative side of editing, taking different footage. One of my major projects I got a bad mark on, but I loved it. I took a song by Stone Temple Pilots to Return of the Jedi. It’s the song Tumble in the Rough. I took that song that was cutting it to the walkers being crushed. Oh, so cheesy. I wish I had it soon.

Shonna Foster: Okay.

Cory Bowles:
This is pre YouTube, so that’s the stuff now that will get like [crosstalk 00:38:31]-

Jeremy Harty:

Oh, god. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I’d probably have 100 million easy, easy views on that, right? Probably had some take down notices. Probably would have put it up somewhere else, still got another 100 million. Would have been DMCA, got in trouble for that I’m sure, but that’s when I really thought, “Okay. Audio editing was great in a sense, but video editing is so much more, because you have audio, you have picture, just twice as good.” That’s how I got into working in the biz.

Shonna Foster:

In biz, and what advice would you have for any upcoming editors and now everything’s digital and software and things can be very expensive, and so what are some tools that you use?

Jeremy Harty:

Oh, now is amazing. Now’s an amazing time, because you can get the DaVinci Resolve for free. You can edit, you can color correct, you can do some special effects and some audio editing in there too. If you were starting out and you’re in high school or junior high or something like that, if you got like an AV

Club or something extracurricular that you can do like that, you should watch as many movies and TV shows as you can get your hands on.

Jeremy Harty:

You got to watch some of the really bad stuff to realize what not to do sometimes, but try to watch the really classic stuff, so that you can really appreciate and get into that mindset, but with YouTube and all the other platforms of people offering tutorials on everything out there. I would kill, kill to be starting my career at this point being much younger because there’s just so much more to learn.

Jeremy Harty:

Film school is good for certain people. I don’t know if I could gone through film school and be where I am now. I think I’m one of those people that has to do it, has to have my hands on, and suffering through it, and working long hours, and getting punched in the arm when the director wants me to make an edit. That’s not Cory. That was another director I worked with early on in my career.

Jeremy Harty:

Every time he wanted me to cut was [inaudible 00:40:26] right in the arm. You have to go through that stuff. I think that will shape you into it, but don’t be afraid to work long hours and research and watch as much as you can.

Shonna Foster:
A question from Andrea. What is your preferred editing platform?

Jeremy Harty:

I use Final Cut Pro. I’ve used it since it was beta. Before that, I used the Media 100. Oh, my god. That was painful. We only had two tracks of video and a graphics track and we used to cheat the graphics track to be a third layer of video by exporting all our footage, and then re-importing it and putting it in this graphics, but then when I made the move to Final Cut, it was the beta version and I’ve been on Final Cut or Final Cut X ever since.

Jeremy Harty:

Now, I’ve dabbled in Avid and Touched Premiere. When we finish our shows, we generally use DaVinci Resolve to do the final color and send it back to Final Cut for our export and our mastering.

Cory Bowles:
Andrea, he is a Final Cut snob.

Jeremy Harty: I am.

Cory Bowles:

I mean it in the sense that when the Final Cut came out and it was like a glorified iMovie. He was raving about it and I was like, “Yo, man. This is kind of like what’s up?”

Jeremy Harty: Whack.

Cory Bowles:

[crosstalk 00:41:34] taking the old Final Cut style and this is awesome. He was just like not having it. He’s like basically Final Cut could have been just like… It just could have been like one [inaudible 00:41:45] it would be okay. He’d be like Final Cut, he’d find the… He would find the positive in it.

Jeremy Harty:
I’m a Mac snob what it really comes down to, so, just straight up Mac snob.

Cory Bowles:
He taught me how to use the new Final Cut very well.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. I suffered greatly when they switched from Final Cut 7 into Final Cut X. I was doing a short film and I was trying to do all these multi-layer stuff and it was crashing, and then I was just… But I found that having a project to do in it, I learned it, and if I was forced to use another software, I’d just be like, “Oh, I want to go back to Final Cut,” because it’s what I know.

Jeremy Harty:

What it comes down to is go with the tool that you feel strongest in, but be aware of the other tools, because they all have their advantages and disadvantages. One of the things I really like about the Final Cut is being able to create roles where you assign different things, and when I go to output, I can output five or six different versions of the same timeline with just a few keystrokes.

Jeremy Harty:

It’ll do export of different files like if I had a German language and a French language on the same thing, I could do two exports. So a German one and the French one, but only have to have one timeline if you prepared your project properly and stuff. That’s why I stick with Final Cut. Sorry.

Shonna Foster:

Another question. What is your decision-making process in approaching pacing in your edit? I guess that’s for both of you actually.

Jeremy Harty:

Well, for me, I generally slap together everything dialogue based in the order of per script or whatever, and re-watch it, and then see if there’s duplicate thoughts being said or expressed, and then looking at how to pepper in the coverage over top of that. So, if I want to go to someone’s reaction and stuff. That’s how I tend to build it. Worrying about the actual script first, and then worrying about coverage and all the other angles or the timing of things, but as of late, in the last year or so, I’ve been working on Trailer Park Boys animated series.

Jeremy Harty:

It’s totally different. You do your audio cut and you send it off, and then they do the storyboards and all that stuff. It’s like four or five months later, it comes back to you and you’re like, “Oh, that’s how they drew that. Okay. Well, let’s maybe cut these lines out now that I thought I needed.” Tossed. So, different experience, but interesting. Cory, yourself?

Cory Bowles:

Oh, for me, rhythm is really important. I like to try to find a natural emotional rhythm and everything and if I can’t find it in the scene, I don’t want the scene, but if I really want the scene, I have to find the rhythm. I believe in a lot of space and a lot of time, but I don’t want anything to be sluggish.

Cory Bowles:

I guess it’s always hard to find the right balance and you kind of know… Actually, we played a lot with the pacing and there’s a scene where Black Cop is stopped by a rookie cop in the movie. We played a whole… I think we have like six different versions of that scene or just-

Jeremy Harty: Yeah. There’s a lot.

Cory Bowles:

… [crosstalk 00:44:52] what we were cutting, what we’re dragging out? What are the most tense? One of them was like snappy and one of them was like boring. One of them was like exciting and hype. Then, we were like, “Okay. Well, how do we find the right balance of each one?”

Cory Bowles:

Again, we really try to find peaks and valleys as much as possible in a scene. If something ramps up, you find the ramp up and if something is supposed to have the, just hold you there. We make sure we build it with a hole or we might pull out when you don’t want to get pulled out. It’s kind of things like that.

Cory Bowles:

On Jeremy’s other point about, it’s different in television. I get to sit on the edit, I do a lot of the edit, the Director’s Cut for Diggstown. I show I work on, Diggstown. I’m really adamant about sort of not doing a cut that the network is necessarily going to like. I always try to find and I cut it as tight as possible. I shouldn’t say this because… I cut it as tight as possible so they can’t make very many changes.

Jeremy Harty:
You just told a trade secret, man.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. Usually, you give a long cut and give it, so the producers can have their cut. I’ll cut it really tight. Then, they’ll have some things they can change, but usually the essence is there. Then, it usually shifts some… There goes my dog. I got to just pause.

Jeremy Harty:

To further Cory’s point there, there’s a thing when you’re working with a broadcaster where certain broadcasters after you’ve worked with them for a while they might trust you, but other ones you know they’re going to just need to make a note, even if it’s not a note that should be made. They just have to be part of the process.

Jeremy Harty:

You kind of have one obvious bad scene or edit or line and you kind of just leave it there for the first pass where they see it, and then that’s going to be the thing that they focus on. You go, “Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great note. We’ll take that out.” You cut it out. Then, they look like a hero.

Cory Bowles:

[inaudible 00:46:51] networks in there, but sometimes [inaudible 00:46:54] and sometimes in some cases it’s like I would try to keep a little bit there, but I also want to make sure that they hire me to direct the show and they hire me to put my touch on it. I want to make sure they get what is my touch, and if they go, “Okay. Well, this isn’t what we want.”

Cory Bowles:

Then, I’m like, “Well, then, I’ll learn what you want, but this is… I want to make sure you get the most that I can give you in an edit. I always will push, push, push as well for that.” It usually turns out well. Everyone is happy at the end. There’s some things that may work or may not, but I think that’s important to experiment there as well.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. In regards to what I was saying with the note process that I’m used to. I’m used to working on a series that has been going for so long, has the same director, and Cory’s coming from it from he’s the hired gun. You’re hiring him for his perspective. You should get his perspective. You should get what he thinks and feels is best.

Jeremy Harty:

I’ve worked with other directors on other series where that’s what they do. They do their thing, and of course, the producers and everyone else overrules them at some point and things get changed, but at least you know where that person’s come from and their vision is there, and generally you hire them because you want their vision.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. In a show like Trailer Park, I direct Trailer Park and Jeremy edits that. I’m not actually involved in the edit. I’ll shoot for the edit to give him options, but really it’s about… In that case, I’m trying to get as much dynamic and as much good material in the scene, so then they can play with everything they want.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. There’s not complaints in that regard because Cory’s been in the family or the show for so long. He knows the characters and knows the crew and everything. It just works. It’s so easy. He just walks in, bangs it all out. We’re done. Right, Cory, no pain?

Cory Bowles:

Yeah, but you’ve also given me some lectures about things that I may or may not have gotten or things that-

Jeremy Harty:

I choose not to remember those moments, but, yeah. I’m sure they’d happened. In that regard, that series, I cut in a trailer near the set. It used to be the point where I’d come out to set and everyone would go, “Oh, shit. Jeremy’s here.” Because I guess I’m just that big a dick when I come out on set or something’s gone wrong and I caught it in the suite and I’m coming out to say, “It’d be really nice if you shot a color chart or you gave us a few more seconds when you say cut, like this really sucks to be in this room over there.”

Cory Bowles:
Jeremy is known to come out to set, stand there, and then leave. If he does that, you know something

that like… Everyone’s like, “What did we do? We did something.” Jeremy Harty:

There’s always a department going, “Something went wrong. Was it our department? I don’t know.” Sounds messed up-

Cory Bowles:
[crosstalk 00:50:04] everyone sees it.

Jeremy Harty:
Did we have a continuity issue? I don’t know. He didn’t talk to me so I think we’re good. Okay.

Shonna Foster:
Jeremy, do you have an agent? How do you get gigs?

Jeremy Harty:

I do not have an agent. I get all my gigs word of mouth. Luckily, I keep busy just because of that, but I haven’t been out there doing… I don’t sell myself. I don’t peddle my wares. I’ve just been blessed to be able to be working Trailer Park stuff and working on Cory’s stuff and working with people who were with Trailer Park and moved on to other projects at some point and said, “Hey, yeah, let’s bring Jeremy along.”

Jeremy Harty:

But Nova Scotia is hard to get some gigs sometimes. It’s really painful for other editors out here and teams. Especially now with COVID, it’s tough for everyone.

Shonna Foster:

For both of you, is there a genre that you haven’t worked in that you want to? I know Jeremy you’ve done animation shorts.

Jeremy Harty:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). It’s going to make you sound like the biggest wimp ever. I don’t watch horror movies. I don’t think I could ever cut a horror movie. I don’t know. For me, I would like to do more dramatic stuff. I really enjoy the dramatic stuff. I find it sometimes a little bit more restrictive though than comedy. Comedy just have such… There’s so much more we can mess with.

Jeremy Harty:

That’s why Black Cop really worked for me is because even though it was so dramatic, there was a lot of freedom. There’s a lot that could be reshaped and juggled around. It wasn’t so fixated on shot by shot by shot as per his list or the script. It was a little bit more free-form.

Cory Bowles:
I would trust Jeremy with any genre of film. I would trust him with horror. I would trust him with-

Jeremy Harty: No. Horror.

Cory Bowles:
I would trust him do a Hallmark movie. I actually think [crosstalk 00:51:55]-

Jeremy Harty:
Oh, Hallmark movie [crosstalk 00:51:57]

Cory Bowles:

I actually think Jeremy is an absolute gifted editor. I think that he is one of the very few editors, and I’ve worked with really good editors and I love my relationship with everyone, but I think there’s something that Jeremy taps into that I find very rare and I find really special that I think that he has an extremely open mind.

Cory Bowles:

He’s not afraid to go away from his comfort zones and just try something. That’s one thing that I’ve always noticed is that he never approaches it by rule. He approaches it, but this is what’s in front of us, this is what we can work with, and let’s start from there.

Cory Bowles:

I find that that’s great when you have your toolbox and you have your methods and you have your go-to’s. I don’t like to work that way myself. It’s like we have our toolbox, we just go for it. I feel that is one of Jeremy’s strengths is that once he understands what the pacing is or gets an eye for something, then he pulls out stuff that I hoped for, but also wouldn’t have been able to think of. I think he’d be good at anything really.

Jeremy Harty: Thanks, bud.

Cory Bowles:

That’s why he’s on my team.

Jeremy Harty:
Cory loves me so much he named his dog Jeremy.

Cory Bowles:
Well, her name is Peanut.

Jeremy Harty: Oh, damn.

Cory Bowles:
She’s named after Peanut [inaudible 00:53:15], Shannon.

Jeremy Harty: I don’t know.

Cory Bowles:
Actually, a choreographer I love so very much.

Jeremy Harty:
Okay. Maybe your next dog, right?

Cory Bowles:
Maybe, yeah, my fish. Maybe.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. I have to say over my career I’ve been very blessed to work with people that are very creative types and are kind of on the fringe, not that mainstream. I think that’s helped me mold myself into something where I am now, but I definitely can’t do horror. I don’t think I can do horror. I could maybe do a slasher, but not like the jump scares.

Jeremy Harty:

I don’t know. I’d be probably curled up in a ball in the edit suite crying after seeing some of the footage. I don’t know. Maybe it’s just all in my head because I haven’t been forced to do that.

Cory Bowles:
[crosstalk 00:54:01] to trigger something then, hey, don’t ever do horror.

Jeremy Harty:

But, yeah. But comedy and drama and even maybe action, stuff like that. I think I could do a half decent job. Just haven’t had that many opportunities. I don’t know if Cory and I have done anything really action driven. Maybe the lightsaber battle between Leahy and Ricky.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. No. I mean besides those little things like, no. I mean because most of my stuff is satire drama and it has a bit of comedy, but we’ve… No. Not really, but I also, again, like it would just be… I would just expect it of you, because we will be doing it. It’s like, if I’m doing an action movie, you’re right, you’re cutting it.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. If I’m there I’m doing it. If I say I’m going to be on the project, I’ll give it 110% and I’ll watch a movie I’ve never heard of before or-

Cory Bowles:

I think it’s safe to say that a lot of people will sort of like you look at a Trailer Park is a sort of mock or a dog or things like that. Like a mock dog or that… That show even is full of action. We explode cars. There’s guns. There’s [crosstalk 00:55:09]-

Jeremy Harty:
Oh, yeah. That’s true.

Cory Bowles:
The only difference is as if a live camera crew was there so, yeah.

Jeremy Harty: Yeah.

Cory Bowles:
Action is timing and energy and pacing. I think that’s something Jeremy is really, really good at, so.

Jeremy Harty:

But that said, I don’t tend to watch my old work, even though like it’s been so many years ago that we worked on Trailer Park and stuff like that. I have re-watched some things and I don’t want to get bogged down into this like, “Oh, I wish I did that.” Now, that I know this, because at the time, that is where I was as a creative type. That’s where my skill set was. That’s where the gear and equipment and technology was.

Jeremy Harty:

I have to live with what that is. It can help mold me to the next stage. Maybe there’s a moment where I go and say, “Oh, yeah. That scene I cut years ago, that really worked.” Maybe that kind of thing we could discuss or do again. I don’t know what else to say.

Shonna Foster:
Well, Andrea’s asking how about documentary? Good question.

Jeremy Harty: Oh, yeah.

Shonna Foster:
Cory, what about you, would you do docs?

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. I mean I think that’s more about what type of things you’d edit. But I personally I’m going to… The way Jeremy is with horror movies, I feel like I’m not sure as much… I’ve wanted to do a couple talks. I’ve been tapping them and I’m afraid I would just ruin everything. I think I would do it, editing wise, if this was an editing question, I think Jeremy would do it well, because he understands story.

Cory Bowles:

I mean which is essentially what doc is. It’s story and engagement and understanding that. I think that’s a whole other art form that as personally as a director or filmmaker, writer even, that’s just a whole different unique beast that I just didn’t… In awe of all the time. Personally, I don’t think I’d be good at it. Maybe I would, I doubt it.

Jeremy Harty:

In my early career I did do some doc stuff. I worked on a series that was for Vision Television maybe, where a bunch of people were on a ship, a tall ship sailing across the world, and that was really one of the first doc style things that was truly doc because they were just documenting what happened on the ship, but I’ve never done like a biopic dock or anything like that.

Jeremy Harty:

Basically, just building the story from whatever is available is what Trailer Park kind of was from the beginning too. It wouldn’t be far stretch for me to jump into doing a doc series or something.

Cory Bowles:

I’d tell you, I would want to do something like McMillions or The Last Dance. Any type of drama doc series, those things are next level. That would be like-

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah, but getting all that footage and access to that archives and stuff, that’s what makes your edit, man. You could be, you really have to have the production team behind you and access to all that to really make those rock.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. Well, I think there’s-

Jeremy Harty: You could do it.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. There’s something to be said too about depending on… I guess I was called recently or last year to do a doc to be part of a doc series of hip-hop. I had a lot of really… That I actually saw. I had a real vision of how I wanted it to be or what I thought I could do with it. That would have been fun. Something like

that I think would have been fun because I would have been able to play with the elements of hip-hop and how that worked.

Cory Bowles:

I think one of the most recent things, our friend, Jason, who really sort of took the dark side of the ring and he has such a childlike mind that he made this incredibly dark series, but had the sort of the mystique and the wonder of what it was like to be a kid watching wrestling. That’s like doc, filmmaking has that sort of blend that’s like a win for me, which [crosstalk 00:59:11]-

Jeremy Harty:

He just knows that content too, right? When you know the subject matter and you’ve lived and breathed it for so long, I think that kind of storytelling just comes so naturally, right? I could see you doing hip-hop from your days back in the hip-hop community.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. We’ll move on.

Jeremy Harty:
All right. Any other questions? I guess not. I must have covered everything in the world.

Shonna Foster:
We’ve covered everything. Everything. We did it in an hour and 20 minutes.

Jeremy Harty: Record-breaking, right?

Cory Bowles:
Are we that long, really?

Jeremy Harty: Yeah. I think so.

Shonna Foster:
This is great. Let’s see if anyone else has any questions. Feel free to pop them into the Q&A chat.

Cory Bowles:

I’m going to say something because I think that Jeremy is such a good resource and I’ll say one thing I really appreciate about him that he does, that he did with Black Cop. I think I told you this Shannon is that he would send me scenes to look at and see what I thought, and they were scenes that he would give to… If you asked if he had worked with assistants, as I guess he has assistants and people he works with at Digiboyz, his company.

Cory Bowles:

He would give them a crack, cutting a version of my scene, a scene in my movie. I would get a version from each of those people and they would have their own crack. He was teaching them as well. They were learning how… I’ve said notes back and do cut, that used elements of each one or we do things like that. I found that was a really… I really strongly believe the mentorship, obviously.

Cory Bowles:

I think that that’s imperative of people in our position that we use that position that we have to be able to share. I feel like we’re in such a constrained time to make this movie that we did in 12 days and we had under a year to get it ready for TIFF. It was just a few months. The fact that he’s going to give that time and that space for them to get those cuts, hear those notes, do all that.

Cory Bowles:

It’s really and I’m all for it too, because I learn as well, because I’m seeing other perspectives as well as ones that we have ourselves. I feel that that’s really important and a really great quality in Jeremy. I think he’s really strong-

Jeremy Harty:

I definitely picked that up by my early days editing and stuff, giving opportunities like first Trailer Park film, the Black and White was cut in a week. We just had 13-hour day straight, but I was given that project because no one else at the company felt comfortable and didn’t really want to jump into it and commit that much time in such a short time to it. I was keen, but mentorship is definitely important.

Jeremy Harty:

I try to take interns from the community college and the other schools locally for a few weeks to get them into our environment and feel comfortable and put them through some paces. I’m not going to shove them in the room and make them paint a wall. I actually give them footage and say go to town. Like here sink a whole bunch of stuff, start cutting the scene, noodle it, and try to go from there, because I don’t have all the answers to every cut.

Jeremy Harty:

Like Cory said, it’s nice to see different people’s perspectives too, because you might get something that you just couldn’t see because there’s just so much footage and you couldn’t process it or wrap your head around. It’s nice to… I want to give them more opportunities and stuff. Right now we don’t really have many opportunities, for me, so, maybe I’ll give them some old projects and tell them to recut Black Cop, the Assistant Editor’s Cut.

Shonna Foster: Let’s do it.

Jeremy Harty:

I don’t know what that would be, man. I mean pretty gnarly I think. They wouldn’t have the elements that Cory put into it or maybe they get married to the cut.

Cory Bowles:

That’s a cool idea. We did a lot of shorts together too. I mean I think that would be really a fun project to be like, “Here’s our footage of our other short. Here’s the 10 tracks and the music we had and here’s the music we use. These are the music tracks like cut it. That’d be kind of fun. I mean, of course, it’s a lot of work though, but-

Jeremy Harty:

I remember decades ago when GarageBand first came out. That put up a whole song and all the elements for the song and let people remaster the song in GarageBand. That’s been done before, but it would be definitely interesting to see the content produced by it. Maybe we’ll do that with Righteous or something or your next film.

Cory Bowles: Yeah.

Shonna Foster:
Speaking of which, we have a question. What’s next? What’s next for both of you?

Jeremy Harty:

Oh, well, my answer’s going to be shorter than Cory’s. I’ll go first, Cory. Right now I don’t know what’s next. I was on a project. It’s on hold for a little bit now. There’s some other things because I’m affiliated with the Trailer Park boys and their web components and stuff that they do, I supervise some of that, putter around on some of their stuff, but there’s nothing really set in stone. So, summer’s almost over and I don’t know what the next gig is.

Cory Bowles:
I’m going to be his agent and try to get him to work.

Jeremy Harty:
Thank you. I need it for now. For sure. But what’s your answer, Cory?

Cory Bowles:

Well, I’m, of course, we were all on hold because of COVID up here in Ontario and Diggstown was delayed for a while. So, now that’s not going in until actually a year from now. Actually, a little earlier, thank you. Yeah. I’m about to do a show called Nurses. I’m about to direct an episode of that. Then, I’ll move on to a new show called Lady Dicks, which is knock on wood if [inaudible 01:04:46] I’ll be going back to Nova Scotia to do something through the winter, otherwise, I just finished another feature that I’ve been working on for a bit and we’re trying to get Aaron and I in the same team.

Cory Bowles:

We’re trying to get the team together to do that. We’ll see how things work as time goes. Now, I actually had another project that was very contained, which now seems to be a good idea with two people. Now, it’s like we’ll see. I was also working on an animation, developing an animation called… Well, it’s called Spacism now, which is like a play on racism, but it was called Maze in Space, but now it’s Spacism.

Jeremy Harty:
That is a project I’ve heard about, how many years now, bud? You got to get it off the ground.

Shonna Foster:
Did you change the title [crosstalk 01:05:32]-

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. It’s maybe 2000… I don’t know, ’10. But I’ve had it for a long time. Yeah. It’s basically, it’s a social commentary in space. It’s a satire, but it’s a cartoon that takes place there. Yeah. Been noodling with that.

Jeremy Harty:
Yes. You chose to change the name, which Shonna asked about.

Shonna Foster: Yeah.

Cory Bowles:
I like Spacism. I think Spacism is a cool name, but-

Jeremy Harty:
Oh, no. I think it’s a good name. It definitely works better I think than the other one for stability.

Cory Bowles:
Probably, yeah. Probably.

Shonna Foster:
We have another question from Andrea. Technically the long distance showing of scenes to Cory for-

Jeremy Harty:
Oh, how did we do the technical side for showing?

Shonna Foster: Yeah.

Jeremy Harty:

This was before Frame.io. Cory could correct me if I’m wrong, but I think at the time I was using Sony Media Share, Sony CI at one point it was branded, where you just dump it out, password protected, and then they could access it or we were using Dropbox. It was one of those two, but now all the shows that I’m working on… Sorry. Was working on, we were using Frame.io.

Jeremy Harty:

We would push out our cuts, the producers and the other writers or whoever else was involved in the process would leave all their notes there and we reimport them into Final Cut, right onto the timeline, and it makes note taking and giving way easier for me, because nothing sucks more than getting four different emails from different people and trying to figure out, one, what they’re talking about because there’s no time code stamp, two, just in general what they’re talking about like they say, “Yeah. Ricky says this line.”

Jeremy Harty:

Okay. Where? You’re searching for it and you got four other people saying, “No. I like that.” You’re like, “Uh.” So who overrules who? But I think we were doing Dropbox, submitting the whole scene, and then you just… Did you call me and we talked about it on the phone most of the time?

Cory Bowles:

Sometimes we’d have a chat and we would chat on Messenger too, by Message or Messenger or whatever it’s called now. I’ll tell you, Andrea, that Jeremy and I have been working remotely for years and when I see years, I mean like a decade. We were figuring out how to do iChat. I used to teach you-

Jeremy Harty: Oh, yeah.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah, man, because [crosstalk 01:07:47]-

Jeremy Harty:
Oh, my god. Yeah.

Cory Bowles:

We were cutting my movie Heart of Rhyme while I was… I’ve finished class. I’d go home. We’d be on iChat and we’d be working remotely like figuring out… You bring up how we share screen and we’d be just doing it that way. I didn’t know that wasn’t a way that you worked so suddenly it’s like when I got to other places like in the Canadian Film Center, it was like I would go home and I’d be like, “Well, there’s no reason why I can’t do this remotely?” Which we would set up, set up with my, the person I was working with there to do the same thing, which wasn’t happening at the time.

Cory Bowles:

It’s been a thing for us to be able to do that and just be able to chat or talk on the phone and see how things work. We were pretty on that ball for 10 years.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. I totally forgot, which is funny, because there’s other things too that one thing, to my own horn. I developed doing dailies that were a podcast, but they’re password protected. You just use iTunes. You had one little link that I’d emailed to each user, and they would access that link and subscribe to the iTunes podcast and all the dailies would just get pushed out right to their phone or their iPad or whatever they were using at the time.

Jeremy Harty:

They could watch the dailies, and at one point, Technicolor, called me up, and they’re like, “How are you doing this? How are you building it into a website?” I’m like, “I don’t know if I want to tell you without getting money.” They’re like, “Ah, don’t worry about…”

Cory Bowles: We’ll figure it out.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah, and they did. They figured it out. They did it differently, but for a time. But, yeah, the iChat video thing was… Yeah. It was just screen sharing and pushing that out to Cory through iChat, so he would see full screen, whatever we were cutting. We’d talk about it. I could scrub through a little bit. It worked really well. Then, at some point it kind of just chunked. It just got chunky and it wasn’t working as well.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, they changed the software a little bit and it was gone. Now, we have Zoom and other systems that took over. That’s how big a nerd I am.

Cory Bowles:
I was thinking back, and again, trying to get a cut to finish a stronger cut [inaudible 01:09:55] we wanted

a better cut. It’s like we would be working on… Yeah, straight through the- Jeremy Harty:

Well, there was a time where I was on set of another series as the data management tech and I was cutting… Was it righteous? Yeah. It was righteous I think at the time. Another short of Cory’s that it was on hold for a long time. Why was it on hold? What was… We were waiting for one shot.

Cory Bowles:

I didn’t get the most important shot in the movie. We were so excited about we did, we forgot to get a single shot of a handshake, which is the actual crucial point of the movie. We shot it in another town 100 kilometers away. We’re never going to get that store again that we shot inside and we were driving home and we were like, “I think we forgot the shot.” They did zillion cuts, and finally, I just shot my brother’s hand. We finally did it. Yeah.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. Cory is like, “Yeah. We’ll get it done. We’ll get it done.” I was on set doing data management stuff, processing footage all day and I brought the footage from that out on set and just started cutting. At one point, I had directors and producers come in and they’re like, “What are you working on?”

Jeremy Harty:

I’m like, “Ah, another short film. Sorry.” I kind of forced Cory’s hand and said, “We’ve got to get this done, man. Seriously, this film has to be done.” It turned out great.

Shonna Foster:

Are these shorts available?

Cory Bowles: Sorry?

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah. Are your shorts available?

Cory Bowles:
some I think are, but most, no. I think-

Jeremy Harty:
If you were smart, you would release them somewhere maybe on YouTube.

Cory Bowles:

Well, there’s a couple, there’s a few of them online, but I am… You know what? I probably should just put a bunch up online like this week and I have a Vimeo, just my name is at Vimeo. I should… Yeah. I’ll just put them up online. They’re done… I mean Righteous was released back in 2014. It’s not like that’s… All those movies are… Some, I think CBC has the rights to one and they still show it once in a while, but I think I’m allowed to drop it out now.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. You know what? That’s a good idea. I’m dropping out all my shorts this week and there you go.

Jeremy Harty:
You should. You really should, because-

Cory Bowles:
I should say our shorts because we all worked on them, so.

Jeremy Harty:
I didn’t work on all your shorts.

Cory Bowles: Well-

Jeremy Harty:
But I worked on the best ones.

Cory Bowles: Oh.

Jeremy Harty:

Oh, no. There’s some really nice shorts that Cory has never shown me, so I’d be interested to see some of those.

Cory Bowles:
This is true. I was really-

Jeremy Harty:

I don’t know if I ever saw the Heart of Rhyme short. Not the Heart of Rhyme. Sorry. Black Cop short. I don’t know if you ever showed it to me.

Cory Bowles:
Oh, because I was worried you’d judge me, because I edited that.

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah. I think so. I think that’s why you never let me see it.

Cory Bowles: Yeah.

Jeremy Harty:

Which may have been a blessing, it may have been a curse. I don’t know. Maybe I would have been on page one with you like right away, maybe it would have taken a little while for me to fight-

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. I don?t know.

Jeremy Harty:
… through in edit. It’s funny.

Shonna Foster:
Derek is asking where to see Black Cop. I know it’s available on CBC Films.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. It’s on CBC here. If you’re in Canada, yeah. At CBC Gem right now showing it. It’s also on iTunes I think. It’s like 99 cent rental or something now. It’s on Google Play. It’s on Hulu if you have that. It should still be on Amazon Prime. It’s an Amazon movie so I think it’s there.

Cory Bowles:

It’s not [inaudible 01:13:15] any bell anymore, but I think it’s actually on YouTube Movies now for free right now, I think. It’s a special thing I guess because they’re doing all that. Let’s bring these type of movies back for free for a bit. Yeah. It’s on Apple too. Yeah. I said iTunes, Apple TV, whatever it’s called now. I don’t know. It’s always different.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, Cory, because Cory didn’t come here I probably wouldn’t have done this, just because I’m so shy of cameras and being in the public eye.

Shonna Foster:
Jeremy, you keep saying you’re shy, but I have yet to witness the shyness.

Jeremy Harty:

This is something my wife’s told me for years. She’s like, “You hate going to social gatherings, but when you’re there, you’re fine.” I’m like, “Yeah. Maybe, but I dread going to it. I dread the concept.” But when I’m in it, I just push through.

Cory Bowles:
Well, Snuffleupagus no more. He’s out. There you go.

Jeremy Harty:
That’s a weird reference, man.

Cory Bowles:
You’re like the invisible letter.

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah, but do people even know who Snuffleupagus is anymore?

Shonna Foster: Yes.

Jeremy Harty:
Our age group, sure.

Cory Bowles:
Everyone knows Snuffleupagus.

Jeremy Harty: Our age.

Cory Bowles:

But I had the editor I was working with at the Canadian Film Center wanted to meet you and you were just nowhere. Because you get to choose your mentors, right? He was like, “Go and talk to Jeremy. I want this guy.” I don’t know what happened, but he just like disappeared.

Jeremy Harty:
He came here to Halifax?

Cory Bowles:

No. No. He wanted to talk to you because he chose you to be his mentor, but you were like MIA somewhere.

Jeremy Harty: When was that?

Cory Bowles:
I don?t know. It was 2013.

Jeremy Harty:
I must have been deep into Trailer Park or something.

Cory Bowles:
You know what? I think you were in the middle of, it was the movie.

Jeremy Harty: Oh.

Cory Bowles: It was in-

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. Getting into the middle of the film is different than cutting the TV series. Yeah. That’s probably, but I can still meet that person. I still live. I’m alive.

Shonna Foster: He exists.

Cory Bowles: [crosstalk 01:15:05]

Shonna Foster: [inaudible 01:15:05]

Jeremy Harty:
He moved on. He’s on the bigger, better editors out there and hobnob [crosstalk 01:15:13]-

Cory Bowles: [crosstalk 01:15:13]

Jeremy Harty:
I missed out. I missed out.

Cory Bowles: Oh, stop it.

Jeremy Harty: It happens.

Shonna Foster:
Hey. Well, I guess we’ll wrap it up. This was great.

Jeremy Harty:
Thank you very much for-

Shonna Foster: You’re welcome.

Jeremy Harty:
… being the host.

Shonna Foster:
This is my first time doing this.

Jeremy Harty: The moderator.

Shonna Foster: This was fun.

Jeremy Harty:

I think you did lovely, but, again, this is my first time too, so I don’t know. I have no reference, but I’m sure it was great.

Shonna Foster:
Same time next week, Jeremy.

Cory Bowles: It’s awesome.

Jeremy Harty:

Hell no. No. Look at how I’m blushing. That’s how out of my comfort zone I am, but this was way less painful than I thought it would [crosstalk 01:15:47]-

Shonna Foster:
Would you do it live if it was, I don’t know, in a theater or stage?

Jeremy Harty: I’ve talked once.

Cory Bowles:
He did a live chat with me here during TIFF.

Jeremy Harty: Yeah. I did.

Cory Bowles:
For Penshoppe College. It was great. He was awesome too. I think you should [crosstalk 01:16:03]-

Jeremy Harty: I think-

Cory Bowles:
… more. I think it’s important. I think that he has a lot of good and valuable things to say.

Jeremy Harty:

Thanks, bud. Well, you have a lot to say too. You got to make your next film or TV series or short, whatever. Make what makes you happy.

Cory Bowles:
Whatever we’re doing, we’ll be back soon. We’ll be back soon.

Shonna Foster:
Thank you very much for offering me this opportunity, Cory, as well. I appreciate it.

Jeremy Harty:
It was nice to meet you.

Shonna Foster:

It was nice to meet you, Jeremy, and everybody thank you for tuning in. Have a good rest of your evening and-

Jeremy Harty: Bye, everyone.

Shonna Foster: … bye, everyone.

Sarah Taylor:

Thank you so much for joining us today and a big thank you goes to Jeremy, Cory, and Shonna. Special thanks goes to Jane MacRae. This episode was edited by Malcolm Taylor. The main title sound design was created by Jane Tattersall, additional ADR recording by Andrea Rusch. Original music provided by Chad Blain. This episode was mixed and mastered by Tony Bao.

The CCE has been supporting Indspire – an organization that provides funding and scholarships to Indigenous post secondary students. We have a permanent portal on our website at? c? ceditors.ca? or you can donate directly at? ?indspire.ca?. The CCE is taking steps to build a more equitable ecosystem within our industry and we encourage our members to participate in any way they can.

If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends to tune in. ?Til next time I’m your host Sarah Taylor.

[Outtro]
The CCE is a non-profit organization with the goal of bettering the art and science of picture editing. If you wish to become a CCE member please visit our website www.cceditors.ca. Join our great community of Canadian editors for more related info.

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