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The Editors Cut

Episode 069: Editors Across Canada

The Editors Cut - Episode 069 - Editing Across Canada

Episode 069 - Editing Across Canada

Today's episode is a conversation with Editors Across Canada that took place virtually November 2nd, 2021.

This episode was generously sponsored by IATSE 891. 

Annie Ilkow, CCE (GHOSTS) from Quebec, Jeremy Harty, CCE (TRAILER PARK BOYS) from Nova Scotia, Lisa Binkley, CCE (ZOMBIES 3) from British Columbia, Roderick Deogrades, CCE (CHAPELWAITE) from Ontario and Sarah Taylor (THE LAST BARON) from Alberta talk about their process and how it can be different (or similar) based on where they live.

Annie Ilkow

Annie Ilkow is a Montreal-based editor whose recent work includes Ghosts (CBS, single-camera comedy), TRANSPLANT (2 seasons, for NBC/CTV), and BLOOD & TREASURE (2 seasons, CBS action-adventure). She also edited the critically-acclaimed drama 19-2, the seminal DURHAM COUNTY. A graduate of the film program at Concordia University, she earned her MFA in Cinema at the University of East Anglia, UK.

Jeremy Harty, CCE

Born in BC, Raised in NS, calls Halifax home since 1998. Met Mike Clattenburg and edited his low budget feature TRAILER PARK BOYS in 1999. Since then has been doing anything TRAILER PARK BOYS related. Started editing things with Cory Bowles whenever our schedules allowed. Married with three kids and owns and operates Digiboyz Inc. (Post Production) since 2001.

Lisa Binkley, CCE

Award winning film and television editor Lisa Binkley began her career in post-production after having studied theatre and film production at U.B.C. She graduated from the Media Resources Program at Capilano University. Since then she has worked on numerous feature films, MOWs and television series. Her work was recognized when she received a Gemini Award (CSA) for her editing of the mini-series, HUMAN CARGO. This Canadian/South African co-production was directed by Brad Turner (HOMELAND & 24) and it received 17 Gemini Nominations and also won a Peabody Award. Her work on MGM?s critically acclaimed science fiction series, THE OUTER LIMITS and Showtime?s, THE L WORD (Written and produced by by Ilene Chaiken) has given Lisa the opportunity to work with such directors as Marlee Gorris (Academy Award Winner ? ANTONIA?S LINE), Moises Kaufman (THE LARAMIE PROJECT), Helen Shaver (VIKINGS), Lynne Stopkewich (KISSED), and Kimberley Peirce (BOYS DON?T CRY). She is currently working on ZOMBIES 3 for Disney+, directed by Paul Hoen. Lisa is a full member of IATSE 891, ACFC West and is a voting member of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences. In 2008, she was inducted as a full member into the Canadian Cinema Editors (CCE) honourary society.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE

Roderick is an award-winning Picture and Sound Editor who has worked in the film industry for over twenty years. His extensive knowledge of both sides of the post equation has proven invaluable. His experience in feature films, TV series, shorts and documentaries has established him as one of the industry?s most sought-after collaborators. On the picture side, he is known for his work on STILL MINE (2012), VICTORIA DAY (2009) and ONE WEEK (2008). For television, he has edited THE EXPANSE (Season 3 to 6), KILLJOYS (Season 4 & 5), and Chapelwaite (2021). He picture edited acclaimed documentaries such as 100 FILMS & A FUNERAL (2007), THE GHOSTS IN OUR MACHINE (2013), DAVID & ME (2014) and SILAS (2017). His sound editing work includes SPLICE (2009), PASSCHENDAELE (2008) and SILENT HILL (2006). He is currently picture editing the series BILLY THE KID.

Sarah

Sarah Taylor

Sarah Taylor is a multi-award-winning editor with twenty years of experience. She has cut a wide range of documentaries, television programs, shorts, and feature films. Sarah strives to help shape unique stories from unheard voices. She is a member of the Directors Guild of Canada (DGC) and the host of of the Canadian Cinema Editors (CCE) podcast The Editor?s Cut. Sarah is also the co-host of the podcast Braaains.

 
 
This episode was generously sponsored by IATSE 891.
 

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The Editor?s Cut – Episode 069 – ?Editors Across Canada?

Sarah Taylor:
This episode was generously sponsored by IATSE 891.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Saying no sometimes can be a good? and it’s taken me a long time to learn that. And I think if more of us do that, I think it might be a better working conditions for everybody. So, does this really have to go out tonight? Does it really? Or can this wait till tomorrow?

Sarah Taylor:
Hello, and welcome to the Editor’s Cut. I’m your host, Sarah Taylor. We would like to point out that the lands on which we have created this podcast, and that many of you may be listening to us from, are part of ancestral territory. It is important for all of us to deeply acknowledge that we are on ancestral territory that has long served as a place where indigenous peoples have lived, met, and interacted. We honor, respect, and recognize these nations that have never relinquished their rights or sovereign authority over the lands and waters on which we stand today. We encourage you to reflect on the history of the land, the rich culture, the many contributions, and the concerns that impact indigenous individuals and communities. Land acknowledgements are the start to a deeper action.
Today I bring to you the virtual event that took place on November 2nd, 2021, a conversation with editors across Canada. We’re joined by Annie Ilkow, CCE from Quebec, Jeremy Harty, CCE from Nova Scotia, Lisa Binkley, CCE from British Columbia, Roderick Deogrades, CCE from Ontario, and myself, Sarah Taylor from Alberta. We talk about our process and how things are different and the same, based on where we live.

[show open]

Sarah Taylor:
Today, we are going to be talking about editing across Canada. So, I’m pleased to be joined with Lisa, Annie, Jeremy, and Roderick. So to start, I just wanted to go through the group and kind of give a brief history of our careers and, where we’re from, where we started, and how we got to the location we’re at now. I figured just to get the ball rolling, I’ll start. I’m Sarah Taylor and I’m based in Edmonton. And I’m wearing my, still in Edmonton shirt because I’m still in Edmonton. I went to Grant MacEwen, which was a local college, now university. Took a digital arts and media program, which was kind of a generalist program. We learned graphic design, photography, shooting, editing. And then I fell in love with editing, realized that I could sit in a dark room for hours and hours on end by myself, and I really liked it, so I pursued it.
I had the privilege of working at a local TV station for about four years where I got to work with seasoned editors, which I think is kind of a novelty now. I feel like that’s not happening as often. So, I was lucky to learn from some pros, which really gave me a good learning ground. And then I dabbled in some corporate video production houses for a while, and then I broke it into the freelance world in 2012. And that’s where I’ve been ever since. And my main focus has been documentary, because documentary’s quite strong in Edmonton, but I have been lucky enough to do a bit of everything. So, I’ve done some scripted comedy, I’ve done some feature films, I’ve done a lot of short films. And I love living where I’m living, and I have a family and it’s great for me. So, that’s my start and where I am now. So, I’m going to pass it on to Lisa.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
My name’s Lisa Binkley, and I’m based out of Vancouver, British Columbia. I went to UBC for two years, and I took theater. And as part of the theater program, I took a film history course. And it was by a woman who was an incredible teacher of film history, and she totally opened up my eyes to the fact that, oh my God, you can actually earn a living and work in this industry in Vancouver. And it was back in the early days. I’m embarrassed to say it’s quite a few years ago when the film industry was just sort of starting here. So, I went to school for two years at UBC, and then I went to two years to a media resources program at CAP College in North Van. And that was great because it was everything. It was photography, audio, video, film, editing, everything, and graduated from that. And a couple of people from that program had gone on into editing. And through the film history course that I took, I realized the people who I most admired and the films that really impacted me as a young person, I studied who those filmmakers were, and they were at one point editors. So I thought, I’m going to go into editing. That’s what I’m going to do. And I did. And so I harassed every editor in town after I got out of school until one assistant finally called me back and asked me to come down. And I worked as a PA at first. And since then, worked my way up. I went from production assistant running around getting lunches for everybody on a show called MacGyver. And I just worked my way up as a second assistant, first assistant, and then begged and begged and begged to get episodes to cut, and got an episode, got a couple more episodes, and then finally made the jump, which is very difficult from assisting to editing. And I’ve done editing full-time since ’95.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s awesome. Jeremy!

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
My name is Jeremy Harty. I started out in radio and television broadcasting, of course, in Nova Scotia, and that’s where I am right now, in Halifax. And that was in ’98. I got lucky with an internship at a small post-production company in the city, and that turned into a full-time job. And from that, I met some people. I got connected with Mike Clattenburg, the creator of Trailer Park Boys, and that pretty much started my career and doing short films with some of the cast from the show over the years, like Cory Bowles. And then he did a feature film. And I’ve done all sorts of weird stuff like that. But I’ve been mostly Trailer Park and comedy, and that’s my bread and butter. Not too exciting, but?and I own a small post production facility out here just to try to keep myself busy on different facets besides just editing.

Sarah Taylor:
I think it’s pretty exciting. I’m just going to say, comedy in the edit suite’s the best.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Oh yeah, there’s lots of good pranks.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, I bet. Annie.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Well, I grew up in Montreal. I’m one of those Anglo-Montrealers, that small slice of the population. And I went to Concordia University. I did two degrees. Actually, I have third degree burn? I did a BA in English and a BA in film production, and then I did an MFA in England in film. I was lucky enough to come into the NFB in Montreal at the tail end of some of the careers of some of the pioneers of the sixties, so Wolf Koenig and those crew who gave me my start as an editor. So, I started cutting documentaries, and then I have moved on to doing… Well, one of the nice things about Montreal is that it’s a very small pond, and so we’re lucky enough that we get to do a lot of different things. Not a lot of editors in the industry get to do doc and fiction and comedy and move between those throughout our career, so I’ve been lucky enough to do that. My husband’s also an editor, and we’ve been working consistently for the last 25 years, and that’s where I’m at.

Sarah Taylor:
It?s really cool to hear that in Quebec that I wouldn?t think that you would have the luxury to jump between genres cuz that?s what it?s like for me in Alberta. And I am surprised to hear that. That?s really great!

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah, I think it?s because it?s a small community of Anglo editors. That, we?you know, there is not that many of us. So we get to move between the genres. And it?s a real privilege for sure. I know how lucky I am.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, awesome. And last but not least, Roderick.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
So, I’m based out of Toronto, Ontario. Roderick Deogrades. Hello everybody. Welcome. I guess ever since high school, I knew I wanted to be in film. I just didn’t know how or what I was going to do. So, I pursued that. I tried to get into Ryerson. I didn’t make it into Ryerson’s cut. It was funny because they asked for like? an eight by ten envelope of submitting anything that you have. So, I came with my little envelope, and everybody came with boxes and reels and stuff, so I knew I didn’t have a chance. (deleted) So another university I applied for, I got in was University of Windsor. I thought I’ll go there for a year, and then go back to Ryerson. But I discovered fairly quickly that Windsor’s program was quite great. It was a communications studies program. And you start off by doing everything from film, TV, radio, advertising. And then your second year, you can focus on whatever you wanted to.
So, that’s what I did, and I focused on film and television production. And at the same time, I found a little bit of a loophole where instead of taking my electives, I can do another double major. So, I double majored in dramatic arts. So while I was doing film and TV, I was doing directing, acting, improv, costume design, stage lighting. It was a blast. I had such a great time at university. Got out of there, and I knew that I loved editing and I loved camera, so I didn’t know which way I was going to go. So, I kind of said to myself, the first one that hires me, that’s the road I’m going to go down. And I got a trainee assistant position at a low budget feature film, and it just snowballed from there for me. I took a little bit of a side tandem, almost like with the film and TV and dramatic arts. As I was trying to pursue picture editing through assisting and everything, I got connected with Jane Tattersall here in Toronto and I started assisting her in sound, ’cause I figured, oh? half of picture editing is sound editing, so I’ll learn that too. But fairly quickly, I became one of her sound editors doing features and TV shows while I was, at the same time, trying to work up my ranks as an editor. And so for a while, it was a bit like a lot of sound, hardly a lot of picture. And then all of a sudden, this kind of came up. And then, so now I’ve mostly been focusing on picture editing for a few years now. And I’ve done everything from features to series to shorts to a lot of documentaries, different genres too as well. And I have a blast doing it.

Sarah Taylor:
Working with Jane Tattersall, that must have been so much amazing knowledge to gain. And like bringing that into the picture editing world, that’s amazing.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
It was great. When I started with her, it was just her and David McCallum and me.

Sarah Taylor:
Wow.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
So, it was like very early days when she left Casablanca, and it was great. What a great mentor to have in terms of the sound and of things. And everything that I’ve learned in sound, I just use every day in picture.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh?That’s awesome. That?s a great? I feel like all editors should have at least like?I don?t know?. a couple weeks working with the sound, like somebody like Jane Tattersall that would bring a lots back into the edit suites. Well, my next question is how do we find work in our area? Like?what are the ways of getting your next job? For myself, it’s just been word of mouth for me. And I find, like I mentioned earlier, working in the TV station, a lot of young producers and directors started their careers there too. So, I made these connections with all these people just starting their career. And then as I got more seasoned, they were also getting better and doing more, and they would remember me from back in the day. And so I’ve got a lot of work either through the people, directly through them, working with them, or they said, “Oh, you should go talk to Sarah.” And then slowly as I… and then I just built a reputation. I work with the same directors and the same producers often over and over again. I’m guessing similar to Jeremy, I started working on a series called Caution: May Contain Nuts. And we did five seasons, and then we did Tiny Plastic Men, so we did four seasons of that. And then we did another show called Delmer. And so I just kept working with that production company on all of their shows, and that’s kind of how it’s been going. And then it’s helped being part of the CCE and getting nominated for awards and for people to put their name out there because I’ve been also lucky enough to get jobs by not even winning the awards necessarily, but my name being on an awards nominee list. Then somebody’s looking for an editor, they wanted somebody new to work with, and I’ve gotten contacts that way too. So yeah, it didn’t really matter that I was in Edmonton for some of those jobs. They just found me through an award list. And then I got to work on a cool show that wasn’t based out of Alberta. So, that was a neat turn of events for me. Let’s go backwards. We’ll start with Roderick in this one.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Well, I was the same as you kind of starting off. It was always word of mouth. It was always through like people that I’ve worked with before that would then seek me out under next projects. Lots of things like, “Hey, do you know an editor?” “Yeah. Oh yeah. Actually, I just worked with somebody.” So, it was a lot of that. And that’s how I relied on getting my next gig for the longest time. And I kept consistently busy. Now lately, I’m in that kind of world of being represented by agents, and so my agent now plays a bigger part in terms of getting me into doors, where I normally… before I got an agent, I normally wouldn’t have the opportunity to, because either it’d be too late because I didn’t know about them or the particular job. So, I get that. I still get my regular sort of people I collaborated with in the past. And you make a really great point, Sarah, about the whole kind of awards and nomination thing, because it is another way to get your name out there and doing things like this and just being visible and being upfront as somebody that people can recognize and look at and seek out.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, I totally want to touch on the agent stuff.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
So, we’ll talk about that again later, but I think-

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Sorry. Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
I would just be curious to know your experience and if anybody else has got experience with that. How about Jeremy?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Basically, it’s word of mouth for me. And like I said, I got partnered up with Clattenburg early on. We were doing a beer commercial. And then one day, the editor at the post house said, “Yeah, Clattenburg has some short film or feature length film. I don’t know. I don’t have the time for it.” And so for 13 hour days for five days straight, we cut the first black and white feature. And then it got sold as a series, and that just was along that path. And everything else in my career has basically been with people that were brought on as producers on that or actors from the show that have done other things, and just that kind of word of mouth. Unlike some people, I haven’t been too blessed with nominations or anything. Trailer Park’s not really one of those things that people go to and say, “Oh, the editing is so amazing on that show.” So, that doesn’t get me any gigs. It’s just working with the small people in this community that are tight-knit and having that word of mouth is a godsend really.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Sorry Jeremy, but the editing in Trailer Park Boys is pretty damn good.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Sometimes. Sometimes.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, it’s very important.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yes, an iconic television. It’s like it doesn’t get much bigger than that in Canada. It’s amazing.

Sarah Taylor:
Come on!

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Well, we are blessed with our fans that are still following us, even though we’re not so active. We did the animated series, which is… that was so different, cutting animated from the stuff that I was used to. It was a big learning curve, but I was-

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
No kidding.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
… blessed with some good people that help me along on that path.

Sarah Taylor:
I didn’t even think about… I noticed that that was on your resume, and I didn’t even realize, well yeah, that’s a whole different world, doing animation editing versus normal picture editing.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah, you’re just cutting sound and hoping that the picture won’t suck later.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, I love it. That?s awesome. Okay, how about Annie.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
The situation in Montreal is, as you can imagine, a little bit unique in that we’re dealing with the two solitudes. And I always get my jobs through producers and directors that I’ve worked with before, but there’s the added difficulty of crossing over between the languages sometimes. And usually what ends up happening is a francophone director will get a gig in English, and then they will meet me and they will bring me over to the French side, because otherwise, I wouldn’t be asked to do those jobs. There’s many, many great francophone editors in this town. So, that’s the way I’ve managed to cross over to do work in French, but it hasn’t happened as much as I would like. So generally, I work for two or three production companies in our town. And some of them are service jobs, and some of them are homegrown productions. And there’s a few shows like Transplant that I’ve been cutting for the last two seasons that are shot in Montreal, so I got the gig. But generally, it’s those relationships with the production companies that are doing big budget stuff, and I’ve been lucky enough to get those gigs, but it is tricky. And in terms of agents and stuff, I know a lot of other editors who have ditched their agents because all of the jobs come through word of mouth, and they just don’t feel like they want to cough up the 10% or 15% to the agent because it’s not really bringing them anything, because it is such a sort of a word of mouth kind of community here. So in Montreal, it doesn’t really work. But definitely, I think we are all looking at how things are changing in terms of tax credits and jobs being kind of done remotely. And I got a job in LA and I got a job out of BC. And so because there’s such a demand for labor, sometimes people are willing to take the hit in terms of the tax credit and hire you out of province to work somewhere else. So, that’s starting to happen I think more and more.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s really great to hear. I think Roderick, you have a similar story where you’re working in BC on a show. And I think even for myself, over COVID was working with a company in Italy. So, there’s like a weird random things that can happen. I don’t know how tax credits work there, but typically, it was always like, “Oh no, sorry, you need to be an Ontario resident or you need to be an Alberta resident because we need this tax credit.” So, it’s really great to hear that that’s shifting. I think through COVID, we’ve realized we can do work anywhere. It’s possible.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Exactly.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
A lots great to hear.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Lisa.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yeah, it?s the same thing. I find out from word of mouth from producers and directors I’ve worked with in the past. I’ve never had an agent. I think I looked into doing that at one point because I was hoping that it would bring a variety of other projects or higher profile projects. But I found from talking to other people, at least in Vancouver, that it is pretty much word of mouth and your reputation. So, I just haven’t thought that it would be something that… because I kind of feel like I’ve got a name for myself here, so I think people will call upon me. I have to admit though, some of the bigger projects that have come to town you’d miss out on, and I kind of wonder what was that because either you didn’t get the connection of the person that was involved or agents got there beforehand. And people, sometimes they’ve gotten interviews, and you didn’t even get a chance to interview and they’ve already got the job. So, it depends. I can see a benefit to agents, but for me personally, I’ve been, I guess, fortunate to have not to had to rely on one. In Vancouver, the climate’s a little different in that it’s a heavy service industry here, and they do a lot of shooting on bigger shows, but they don’t necessarily hire editing here. So, it’s tough because we primarily… most of the shows that work here that hire editors traditionally have been Hallmark and Lifetime. And right now, it has sucked up quite a few of our talent so that people aren’t available for the bigger shows that do come to town that would maybe hire local editors. So, it’s tough because you do want to get better shows to work on, more creatively interesting shows to work on, but for a lot of us it’s really difficult because those opportunities are pretty slim. So, there’s so many of us, and then we’re all vying for the same kind of jobs. And we really don’t have a lot of local independent Canadian production happening here as well. We lost our Western drama division years ago, so everything sort of is being developed out east, and it’s not really happening out here. I’m very fortunate to be starting on a show that is a local show, and I have been very fortunate to work on local shows in the past, but we really don’t have as much as, say Toronto does with their co-productions. It’s very competitive here.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s kind of that idea of… same with like in Alberta. Maybe it’s similar in Nova Scotia where there’s shows that got shot in Alberta in the Mountains in Calgary all the time, major, huge shows. And the thought of post is like meh?not even a?yeah?which is unfortunate.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
I just wanted to ask… like I said, I’ve been really lucky to be working consistently and on good budget shows and interesting shows, but I got to admit that it’s usually like there’s one or two. And are you actually in a position to pick and choose between two, or God knows, three projects? Does that exist in the rest of Canada? Is that something that happens. Because I’m like, woo, okay, I got that show for the next three months, woo-hoo. And I’m not complaining. They’re great shows, but there is one, and I know there’s six of us in town that… and so it’s kind of like that here. I don’t know. What is it like for you guys? Do the people living in bigger cities or with agents, does that make a difference? Are you picking and choosing or-

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I think to a certain degree, they’re like in Toronto anyway, there is a lot more productions going through here and looking for editors. And I mean, once a while?we started up after the lockdown and production started going back, and everybody was clambering to get crewed. And so there was so much to choose from. During that time, there was actually a lot to choose from in terms of where you wanted to end up first. And even now, I find that there is… my agent, I’ll call and kind of coming up to the end of a show that I’m on, it’s like, “Okay, so what’s coming up?” And she’ll usually say, “Okay, well, there’s this show, there’s this show, and there’s that show. Which one are you interested in? Which one should we pursue?” Right? But that doesn’t mean that I’m like, all three shows want me. It’s like what do I want to go for?

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Right. Right. That’s great.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
And also is it like, do you want to get into features on your next round? Do you want to go into series? Right?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
So, there is… and then plus, and that’s what the agent is sort of presenting to me. But sometimes, at the same time, I’ll have producers and directors I’ve worked with before also emailing and calling and saying, “Hey, somebody’s coming up, what?s your availability?” So, I got to weigh all that together.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Right.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
So I mean, it’s Toronto, right? Because I could imagine that it’s not like that countrywide, but that’s what I’ve experienced. And not just me, but also other editors that I talked to as well.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I have to say that out east out here… it was funny, when Lisa was referring to out east, I was thinking-

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
How far east?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah. This far east, we maybe have three or four shows, tops. I have to say that there’s a lot of resentment in my heart sometimes when I hear of a show shooting here, and then I hear that, Toronto. That’s where all the post is going back. And I’ve started a post house here in hopes of keeping some stuff here, but it’s hard. Even with a post house, we were the lab on The Sinner, and they didn’t even want to talk to any of us about editing that. So, it’s? shows come in, and they’ve already planned they’re going out. They’re not going to even sit here. And sometimes, they don’t even process their footage here when they’re done shooting. They just ship it all out to Toronto or New York or LA.

Sarah Taylor:
Or they bring their own crew. I know that happened… I was talking with the editors of Ghostbusters, and they went to Calgary and were doing cutting in Calgary. I was like, oh, I’m glad that you cut it, but I was like, oh-

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
There’s been some editors that have cut shows that have been shot here, and that we were hoping crews would be working here. But yeah, they went back, one editor there and one editor here.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Split.

Sarah Taylor:
For me in Alberta, I just say yes to everything. Now, I’m trying to say no more, but I often find that I’ll be like, oh God, every… and especially after COVID, and we paused and then everything started again, I was like, this hasn’t worked well for me. I have too many things to do. It’s all doc, mostly doc for me. And so the only scripted show that’s been happening as of late has been Heartland, and that’s done now in Calgary, so it’s not even on my radar. So yeah, there’s definitely not any vying for options really.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Here in Vancouver, I think there’s a lot more opportunity to work on bigger projects if you’re an assistant.

PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:25:04]

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
They tend to get better opportunities in terms of the big features and working with editors that are iconic people. That’s cool for assistance in Vancouver. I just wish on some of the shows that were up here that are the bigger ones that they would at least interview. If we could just get an interview just to meet people. I find that the local producers here barely know what we do. It’s really… it’s sort of hard… you can’t even get yourself at the table, which is too bad, because we have so many talented editors and assistants here who are incredible. As I’m sure that we are across the country. It’s, again, trying to get the opportunity to get your foot in the door is a real challenge.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I got to figure too, that we’d be cost effective.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I know. I know.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Why aren’t they even considering that. I’ve cut shows that I know if it was cut in Toronto or somewhere else it’d cost even more than me cutting it. I’m pretty cheap.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Right now I’m cutting a show for CBS, which is normally would’ve been cut in LA, but it’s being cut in Montreal and there is an LA editor and then two Montreal editors. It’s a bit of a learning curve for the Americans, because they’re used to… they’re a bit chauvinistic when it comes to talent. It usually… It takes two or three weeks before they’re like, “Oh, you guys get it?”

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yes.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
It’s all like… I’ve seen it. I did a show for MGM. I did another show for CBS. Then the same thing happens every time. They’re like, “Yeah, I don’t think you guys… do we really… have you seen Seinfeld? Do you understand?” They really don’t think that we share any cultural touchstones at all.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh dear.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
They think we’re like Finland? Then they see your work and they’re like, “Oh, oh, okay!” They’ve sort of accepted it from the crew for a long time, but from? in post it’s kind of new. The show I’m doing now is a comedy and they’re like, “Oh, but you’ve done drama, but comedy that’s way different. You can’t possibly know what that is.” They get it and then they’re like, “Okay.” It’s really… it’s top heavy. It’s hard for them to get it at the beginning, but eventually they do. They have to… it’s, obviously, the bottom line. We’re so much cheaper, and the tax credits, and everything make it just much more attractive. CBS has a relationship now with the company I work with in Montreal a lot. It’s really a tough slog to get them to see the post as good as the crews are now. I think the crews are seen as top-notch, but at post they’re still not getting that.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
We’ve been saying this, I remember when I started out, it’s been that way since the beginning. It’s almost… When I started out I was on a big MGM series, the first, I think, it was the first visual effects series done in Canada called the Outer Limits. It was an amazing project and it trained a whole ton of people that have since gone on to do really incredible things, but the opportunities for that talent, the types of shows, levels of shows that we could be working on it hasn’t gone like we were all hoping it would. Do you know what I mean? It’s sort of stagnated.

Sarah Taylor:
And in BC, you have damn good editors. Is that what this is called?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yes, with IATSE.

Sarah Taylor:
And we have a post production allian? or association in Alberta, that?s talking to government and trying to like, promote Alberta editors and I know that Ontario has Ontario Creates so maybe and like there?s all these, I think people are trying to start. They are starting, but it?s still getting the message out there that giving us a chance or at least looking at the options. The more we talk about it maybe the more it?ll get better? I wanted to ask Rodrick, what made you decide to get an agent and how have you noticed the shift? Because I think people are curious about that.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I was very late and I was very hesitant in the whole agent thing, because for years and years, I’m cutting docs, I’m cutting features, I’m doing all this stuff, and I’m not having to look. I didn’t? as Lisa was saying, I didn’t want to give up 10%, right? But slowly but surely what I started discovering was the shows that I did want to get onto every time I contacted the producers or the production they’d already crewed, right? Way ahead of me even knowing that they were going to be in town. I was like, “Hmm, okay. Great.” Or I would get calls from those big shows saying, “Hey, we need another editor. We lost an editor. Are you available?” But, I’m already committed to something else that I’d gotten on my own, so I couldn’t really leave. And then the clincher for me was early in my career I would have up-and-coming creatives and professionals, “Hey, can we go for coffee? I just want to pick your brain about getting into the industry.” I’m like?

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
“…yeah, absolutely.” Right? Then slowly but surely those people a few years later are the ones that are getting the gigs that I wanted. I was like, “What? What’s going on here?” It was because they were repped. Pretty quickly I was like, “Okay, I got to change my tune about this whole agent thing.” I did my due diligence and I got signed up with Vanguard. What that has afforded me is having a line into these productions that are thinking about coming to Toronto. The first thing those productions do in the States and everywhere else is they call the agencies in Toronto saying give us a list of your editors, right? Already they’re looking at my resume or they’re putting my name forward before they even set foot in here. Sometimes before they’re even green lit to come here. So by the time they do come here I’ve already been tossed around in their head. That’s the biggest advantage for me in terms of… that and not having to talk money with the producers.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. That would be the thing I would want.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Going, oh yeah, you got to talk to my agent.

Sarah Taylor:
Talk to my agent!

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Sorry.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, I would love that. Sometimes I joke that I’m like, I’m just going to pretend my husband’s my business manager. He’s got a different last name. Speak to my manager.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah, that’s the plus, right?

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I still get my roster of people I collaborate with and producers. I’m more than happy to do that, but it feels like now I’ve got, as sort of being in Toronto, I have more choice in terms of what I want to do next, where I want to take my career. And my agent is also very keen, tuned into what I want to do or where I want to be in five years, in ten years.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
They’re strategic about where to put me. They’re not going to just put my name out anywhere. They’ll go, “Oh, no. That’s not for you. This one. I want you to work with this filmmaker, because I think this is a good investment in that.” Right.

Sarah Taylor:
You saying that makes me think it almost forces you to have like? a plan, right?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
A plan.

Sarah Taylor:
To think where do I want to go? Where do I want to be? Maybe other people do this, but I’m not the best at it. Where it’s like, “I’m busy. I’m working. I’m just going to keep working. I’m going to keep doing the thing I do, because I’m making money. Everything’s great.” But you need to sometimes pause or have an external person be like, “Well, what do you really want to work on?”

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
That was the first question they asked me. Where do you see yourself in five years? What kind of shows do you want to cut in five years, right? Within the year they got me that kind of show.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, that’s awesome.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Right. I was just like, “Okay.”

Sarah Taylor:
What’s happening?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
This is great, right? Yeah. After a year we had a meeting, I was like, “Now what?”

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. Like you… That’s great. Oh!

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Right.

Sarah Taylor:
Well, that’s a success story. An agent success story. Okay.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah. It is.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s great.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Look, I have to say that it’s not just get an agent and everything will work out great, because it really is a relationship that you have to… as much as they’re interviewing you to sign you up to their agency you’re interviewing them. Is this the kind of person that has your best interest at heart? Are they going to work with you in terms of where you want to go? That’s something to really consider when you are talking to agents. A little bit about what the roster is like. Do you feel a niche in their group of editors that they might have that doesn’t match somebody else? Therefore, now you’re unique within their roster of editors. That’s something else to look into as well.

Sarah Taylor:
Awesome. That?s great. We have a couple of questions that actually go into our next topics. First, Alex wants to know, Annie, what Montreal post houses do you work with?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Well, it?s?become heavily consolidated lately. So there is MELS and there is Difuze, those are the two main places that are still hosting out edit facilities. Of course, there are lots of tiny ones, but those are the two main labs down. And they are both owned by?well one is owned by Quebecor, and that?s probably follows the move in most of the industry, just that consolidation. That?s like all the small places that used to be the little boutique places that are really fun to work at, kind of gotten eaten up. So that?s the situation in Montreal now.

Sarah Taylor:
Similar to Toronto, I feel like, too, right? There?s been a bunch of places merged. And then, Alex?s another question which is one of my questions is unions. So are you part of the union? What union are you part of? I’m a DGC Alberta person, but I haven’t had a DGC Alberta show in like five years, so it’s because it’s not happening. Yeah, where is everybody at with union?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I mostly focus on that. Occasionally, I’ll get a doc that might not be DGC and then I get dispensation, but I’m mostly doing DGC Ontario shows.

Sarah Taylor:
I’m IATSE and we have a Quebec Union also called Actis. They recently merged, because it was for a long time it was just the Quebec Union and then some of the cinematographers called on IATSE and said, “Hey, we would kind of like representation.” Then it was like the monster came in. In a way it’s been awesome. So now that the two unions have merged, and it depends on the budget level of the show, but IATSE is. Yeah, that’s our main union here.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Same with us. We have IATSE 891 here, which I’m a member and we also have ACFC West, which is an affiliate union. Then we have a ton of non-union work, as I said, with the Hallmark and Lifetime. So-
Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Right.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Because we don’t get a lot of work, a lot of people are a part of everything, because it’s just the nature of the beast is that we have to earn a living, so-

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Right.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Lisa, what’s the difference between the IATSE and the ACFC unions out there?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
It’s basically their contracts that they negotiate. Usually the IATSE shows are bigger budget-
Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I see.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
The ACFC shows are lower budget. The ACFC shows tend to support more local, locally independent Canadian or BC based productions, whereas, IATSE is this machine juggernaut for the service industry for all of the American TV shows that are coming here.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah, same here.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I’m in the DGC and at the same time I am also in IATSE 667 as a DIT.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Okay.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Digital imaging tech. That actually has got me way more phone calls than DGC. I’ve been offered gigs in Manitoba and elsewhere, just because there’s a shortage there. So it’s funny, because I hope that there’d be more shortage of editors, so I could get more editing gigs, but there’s not.

Sarah Taylor:
The next thing I was curious about is what is your work environment like? We can talk about, what was it like pre-COVID and post-COVID. For me personally, it didn’t really change. I work from home. This is my edit suite where we are right now. There was one… I had one client director that liked me to work out of her home studio, so I would go there a few weeks out of every couple months, but then that stopped. That was basically it for me. Work from home kind of creates my own schedule. That’s what it’s been like since I started freelancing in 2012. I sometimes miss the potlucks that we used to have in offices and getting to have an editor come and look at a cut if I needed to get a fresh set of eyes, I miss that sort of thing, but I like that I can export something at six o’clock and then upload it and I don’t have to run around. Yeah, I can be at home still. Then it was an easy transition during COVID, because I was already used to being by myself.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yeah, that’s great.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
That’s great.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I was working at?it was strange before COVID I was at Finale this facility working on a show, a Netflix show, and there was three editors working, and, I think, we had four assistants. Then COVID hit, and we went home, and finished the shows, and we were like within two days up and going at home to continue. And then everything stopped after that show. Thank God we had that show. That was good, because it gave us some work into the time when everything shut down and then there was nothing for months. Then I worked on an independent feature that was shot in Taiwan?shot in Taiwan, Beijing, Detroit, and in Vancouver. I worked out of my living room, if you will, on a system. That was great. My assistant was in… two assistants were in Taiwan. It was fascinating, because we were thrown into that remote workflow and it worked really well. Then started on this project that I’m on right now at home. It was shot in Toronto and I was working at home and then the director, who’s from Los Angeles, wanted to work in person. I came back to Finale and he was here and this is why we have a little plexiglass. He sits over behind me with his N95 mask on and all the safety protocols are in place here. We did his cut and then it went to testing. We’re dealing with our testing notes now. It’s been a bit of both worlds. I loved working from home. I really did, because I found I was more focused. I was able to… I don’t know. I was able to concentrate better, but what I missed dearly was, as you said, bringing people into the room to get their feedback and to brainstorm. It’s harder to do that on Zoom. You can still do it, but it’s something about bringing somebody physically into the room that I really missed.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
When COVID hit I was working on a show called Blood and Treasure for CBS and my husband was on the show also. We worked out of our home studio, which is this three of us here, my teenage son and the two of us editors working with headphones for three months. I could not wait to get back to the lab. They were on hiatus for a while, because it was all being shot in Thailand in Italy. They had to wait till the restrictions lifted and they were finally able to finish the shoot. We had 20 days left of shooting out of 170 days for the series. They finished the shoot and I went back to the lab. My husband kept cutting here and we’ve been cobbling it all together. Now, my husband cuts a show that shot mostly here, but during the director’s cuts he goes to the lab and they cut together in the studio.
I was very happy to go back to the cutting room where I had my assistant who I’ve worked with for 25 years and that whole… all the support that was wonderful. I really like my little room there where I can get out of the house and that suits me very well. A bike ride, and 10 hours, and then home.
It’s been… I work in different places in Montreal, but the main one has been, because the companies that I work with tend to use the same labs all the time. That’s where I’ve been at for the last two years and it’s very comfy, and I have my workout equipment, and my humidifier, so it’s very homey.

Sarah Taylor:
I was just curious about the… because you mentioned that your husband’s still doing some stuff at home, but then does his director’s cuts in the studio. Is it because that post house or that lab is connected already with the production that there’s a space for him to do that?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yes.

Sarah Taylor:
How is…?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Okay, that’s how it’s set up.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
They’re processing the rushes and they’re doing everything. When he was just assembling he was working at home and then when they had to come together it was considered sort of like A) safer and B) that was just a protocol, because they were having producers, and directors, and sometimes six people in the room. They needed a really big suite to accommodate all those people for screenings and stuff.

Sarah Taylor:
I feel like for me in Alberta, that?s the one thing that I kinda miss? I wish there was? I think there are some? I can probably find out if there is something that I can do but where I could, just for those moments, sort of like fine cut sessions, or getting to picture locked, not always have somebody come to my house, like, it?s okay, but during COVID that’s where it kinda became this kind of weird like ?I don?t know if I really want you in my house, so to have that opportunity to be able to??. And then I was like I have a server here, I can?t really take my server with me, too. Yeah, that?s like to have that option is pretty awesome.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I was in this odd, I only say odd because mostly everybody I knew once Toronto production started up again or post production they all started from home. I was kind of… me and a couple of other editors were actually went into a facility to start working in August, which in the beginning was very scary. Right? What I discovered was it was fairly safe, because everybody followed protocol. Everybody was followed the rules and the facility itself was great. One way into the building, one way out, that kind of stuff. What I discovered was it was really great for my mental health. Is what I found, because rather than being cooped up at home, which I could work from home easily and be productive and all that stuff. I do know of a lot of editors that have been working from home since August 2020 that are now just clamoring for anything social or interactive with another body. For the same reason, because I thrive on collaborating. I thrive on pulling other editors and assistants and saying, “What do you think of this?” Going for a walk to go get coffee, and talking story, and talking characters. The funny thing is on that first show, the first director came in for their director’s cut, and then the producer came in for their producer’s cut. After that it was all remote. All the creatives, directors, and show runners, and producers from that point on since then on three show shows, I guess, I’ve been on since last August have all been remote through like ClearView or Whatnot. That’s been odd, but being able to separate home life and work life has been really, I find, in terms of my mental health and dealing with the pandemic and being affected by it kept me sane. I was really thankful for that.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. Totally. That totally makes sense.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
How about you, Jeremy?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Well, I own my own post house. So-

Sarah Taylor:
That’s good. That helped.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
It’s very small. We are also a lab that do our own processing and I’m in the same building as the Trailer Park Boys. When COVID hit we were actually working on an animated series and a lot of the team were outside of the province already. We were using Frame.io and that’s how most of our workflow was going. When we kinda had to shut down I was still able to come to the building, because we had very few people in the building and all the protocols were fine. Then when we had to record some sessions and stuff, we’d Zoom in, but I was literally in the same building as they were in a back room hiding, and recording their lines, and stuff. It never really changed for me. It’s been pretty much the same. I guess, I’m the most lucky, because I have my own office. I control everything. If there was a moment where shut down had to happen and stuff I said to my staff, “None of you guys come in. You’re fine. You’ll get paid.” Or whatever. “Work from home, but I’m definitely not going to be trying to work from home.” I tried, I really did. I was in a basement in, basically, a closet and my kids were upstairs running around all the time. Not too productive.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Not nearly as productive as being here.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. I have to say, during COVID when my daughter had to stay at home, it was a bit of challenging. That?s for sure. Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I end up doing a lot of tech support for their calls at schools than doing the editing I was supposed to be doing.

Sarah Taylor:
Totally. I think that?s a common theme. We have a few questions here. Gordon’s asking what we’re charging or if we’re charging for our home suites across Canada. I put mine into my day rate, because I’m always working for home. It’s not like per show. Certain companies, like the? I work with NFB will always pay a day rate plus the kit, which is great, but that doesn’t always happen. Yeah. It’s a bonus when I get it. Anybody else have any kit options?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
No one wants to say.

Sarah Taylor:
Nobody. We don’t want to talk about money. That’s what our agents are for.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
It all depends on the budget too, right?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I think that here in Vancouver, it’s some people don’t pay anything, I’m sure. Some people pay a hundred dollars a week. Then I know that, I think, through the ACE practices and also IATSE, I believe that if you have a machine and you’re working from home, I think, it’s on average, they’re trying to get people to get at least $500 for the office and everything. Which is still a deal.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s for the whole production.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Per week, but I mean that’s on the bigger budget things. I’m not sure about any.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah, that’s in Ontario that’s about the going rate. About 500 for the bigger budget shows. Anything smaller will just incrementally get less than that. Sometimes they go can you throw in your system? Depending on the show. Right? Five is probably the most that you can get. I think I got 550 once, but that was a really big budget show and they were like? That’s what the agent kind of –

Sarah Taylor:
Shout out to the agent.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I didn’t ask for it. I was like, “Oh, really? Okay, sure. You got it. Okay.”

Sarah Taylor:
I sometimes forget about the kit, the rental suite, the suite rental. When this last NFB thing they’re like, “Oh yeah. What’s your suite rate?” I was like, “Oh yeah. I should be charging for that.”

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
They break it down. It’s interesting, because they do break it down to not only your space, but your security, your internet, your utilities, your power, your?

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
If you’re in an office regularly, I don’t know, I should know, but I’m sure they’re paying more. It becomes sort of a fair and equity thing. Everything you don’t realize that you’re utilizing all the time.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. Another question was the process of moving from an assistant editor to an editor.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I was very lucky. Like I said, I started off as an intern. Last three months of the school year they actually wanted to hire me, so I graduated early. And I was assisting with commercials, some comedy shows, and some docs, and stuff like that. Like I said, I got partnered up, because the senior editor didn’t want to work on a show for one week and that just skyrocketed from there.

Sarah Taylor:
You snuck right in.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah, snuck in.

Sarah Taylor:
It’s mine now.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I’ll do it. No sleep. Sure.

Sarah Taylor:
I’m young. I’m eager. That’s awesome.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
I always ask my assistant editors to cut scenes and I’ve got to be honest, I look at them and I have a feeling just the same way I have about what I’m looking at my own cuts. How they’re doing, whether they have an instinct for it. If they’re really good, I’ll just say, “You know what? This is what should be doing.” There are some assistant editors who are super happy doing what they do. They’re organizational geniuses and that they love doing that. But if I see someone who’s got real potential I will push them and say, “You know what?” Often it’s not their personality or some of them are super young. Like, “You have something.” I can see right away that they have an instinct. The way they lay out their tracks, the choices that they make, they do things that I didn’t expect, and I’m like, “You know what? You should do this more.” I will give them more and more scenes to cut and I will talk about them to the producers first. Oftentimes they’re totally surprised. They’re like, “Really, that’s good.” Everyone needs a leg up and everyone needs a little affirmation to know that they have that thing. The judgment or whatever. I try and find ways to give people opportunities, whether it’s cutting a previously on or, like I said, scenes that I haven’t gotten around to. Then we talk about them. That’s the key part is taking the time to talk about them and saying like, “Okay, so why did you choose that? Maybe, you could do this.” I find that so rewarding and they often love it. The post houses hate me, because I try and promote them and everyone needs assistant, good assistant editors. Yeah. If they’re into it, it shows right away.

Sarah Taylor:
Would you suggest an assistant? let the editor know ahead of time, “Hey, I’m really interested in cutting scenes if you have any available” or to put that…?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Totally, absolutely. Yeah. I want to know. I want to know that that’s your interest. Like I said, some assistants, that’s not for them. They just don’t… it used to be when I startet?
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:50:04]
Annie Ilkow, CCE:
… it was like everyone wanted that, but it’s not necessarily the case now.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I have a thing I should interject, if it’s okay. Because I own a post house, I’ve employed some people over the years as assistants for me and for other people too. And one thing I’ve did really early on was a Lego test. I give them a kid Lego and I make them put it together and time them and see how accurate they were, and then I found that some of my interns that did it well were bang on great assistants.

Sarah Taylor:
Would they get Lego with instructions?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yep, with the instructions.

Sarah Taylor:
Because I’m not good at creating my own Lego images, but I could work on the one with instructions. I’m like, I don’t know how my feelings with the test.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
You would think you would, but I’ve given them little spaceships, Star Wars stuff, and the power supplies are backwards, the roof doesn’t close, all sorts of weird stuff and just little details and you start figuring out who’s got attention to detail.

Sarah Taylor:
So everybody who’s an assistant editor on this call, be sure to practice your Lego skills and then Jeremy will give you a job, he’ll know.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I also do the same test, so that sets the bar.

Sarah Taylor:
I love it.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I’ve only had one assistant ever be better than me on one test.

Sarah Taylor:
So next time we have a call, we’ll supply the same Lego kit to all the editors on this call and we’ll just do a Lego test.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
If you could see my room and the amount of Lego in here, I think you guys might all lose.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I love everything that Annie said because I completely follow that kind of train of thought. When I land on a show, I ask and I determine what kind of assistant they are. Are they the kind of assistant that’s a career assistant, love career assistants, or are they the assistant that wants to move up into the chair? As soon as I find out they are, then I’m one of those guys because I had really strong mentors. And so, I only find it fitting that I need to be a strong mentor to anybody that I’m working with. And so, because of that, I seek them out and I go and I encourage them. I do exercises with my assistants where I go, “Okay, I’m about to cut this scene, you cut it too. And then when you’re done let me know and let’s watch both of ours together and talk about.” And we’ll do that and I’ll find things that they’ve done that, “That’s great. I’m stealing that if you don’t mind.” Or sometimes I’ll go, “Okay, see. There’s this look. What do you think about this look that I used?” And they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I never thought of that.” So it makes them think about how to cut, not just cutting and how to look for performances. I look for pacing and all that. And if I work with the same assistant on another show, they maybe move up, then I start giving them scenes. And I say, “This is your scene.” When the director has notes, you are doing these notes and they’re yours. And I don’t hide the fact that they are, I tell the director, I go, “By the way, my assistant cut this,” and they love it. They’re like, “Really? Cool.” And then they take ownership and they go, can you tell them to…” And then all of a sudden, as an assistant, when they watch it on air, they watch it on the screens in the theater, they know that’s their work that’s up there. And to give that encouragement and that support I think is really important. But it is hard to make that transition and you just have to be very, as an assistant, make it known. I don’t think you should ever be scared to tell them what your ambitions and your passions are because if they don’t know, then they won’t be able to help you then.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That’s true.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And then just that question, do you have more than one assistant on each project? Or is it mostly one assistant, in terms of your guys’ teams?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
If it’s a feature, it’s usually one assistant. I’d be lucky. And we’re trying to change things here in Ontario, where we have a more complete roster in terms of the crew, where we have a trainee and all that. If it’s series, especially if it’s a bigger TV series, usually they will have two firsts, a second and a trainee.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Nice.

Sarah Taylor:
And they’re working amongst all the editors on the series?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
For the most part. I like all hands on deck. Although I did work on Killjoys where there were two first assistants and they focused on one editor, and the other assistant would work with another editor at the same time. That’s a bit harder because then they’re spread thin, I think, because not only are they doing what you need done, but they’re also doing what the department needs done, so it’s a bit trickier for them to manage. But I like all hands on deck where everybody’s just like, “Can you do this? You pick this up and do script sync on that one, while I do this bin and all that.” That’s great.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Because that’s what I find for us in Vancouver, we’re lucky to get. Usually you’ll have one assistant, if you’re on a series, you’ll have two, hopefully, but we rarely have a second assistant position. And we rarely have a visual effects editor. So the opportunity, when I started, it was back in the day when they were still shooting on film and you would have three first assistants, two seconds, a production assistant, and a whole other visual effects team. And since that time, over the years, it’s becoming less and less and less and less. The coordination side of things has gotten bigger it seems, but the editorial teams are, it’s just you and your assistant. And it is, I find, a lot of times, the assistants are so run ragged doing everything that there’s no time to have them cut. I’ll say, “Do you want to cut?” And they’re like, “When am I going to cut? I can’t.” And it’s a luxury now to have them come in and watch cuts. It’s a real issue here I find, but in my words of wisdom to somebody who’s an assistant that wants to cut as everybody else, let people know, let everybody know, and try to cut as much as you can. And back in the day when I was learning, I wasn’t allowed to touch the machines because it was heavily unionized and I’d had to come in on the weekends or late at night to figure them out and to play with stuff. And now I just find it so tragic because we’re all connected, all the materials there. I would kill to be able to learn that way now because that’s what I would do. I would come in on the weekends and not look at what the editor had done and start cutting my own scene and then I’d get it all done. I think it was really great. And I’d be like, “Oh my God, let’s see what…” And then I’d go into the bin and find out how the editor cut it, and I would look at it and go, “Oh my God.” And I would just do that constantly and it was fascinating because you could compare stuff and it forced you to see things completely differently than… and you were just so… That’s how I learned.
And then, the editors would find out that I was doing that, and then they’d have conversations and certain editors were more giving of their time and discussions, which was fantastic, but I do find now it’s really tough because our assistants have no time. We all don’t have any time. Everything’s just go, go, go, go. And I just thought with COVID, I thought, “Oh great, they’re going to give us more time. The schedules are going to get more relaxed. We’re going to get more help,” because we need more help. Because that hasn’t unfortunately happened in my experience, it’s the same schedules.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Are you guys finding that the lab is doing less of the work and your assists are doing a lot of the syncing and stuff like that? Or is it different for you guys? Because I am the lab and my own team, my team, but doing all that stuff. But I know that some people, they rely on the lab to provide them with all the files on the drive and they just start cutting and labeling and going from there. So your assists might be busy, are they loading footage, raw data, converting it, transcoding, applying LUTs, stuff like that, or are you finding that they’re just busy with keeping up with notes and all the other-

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Here, it depends on the budget of the show. The lower budget Hallmark shows, the assistants, they’ll hire somebody to come in at night to do the syncing. The things that the bigger budget shows, like the one I’m on now, the facility will do that for us. So the assistants are strictly receiving the synced material and are bending them and grouping them and preparing them. So in our experience in Vancouver, it’s totally budget based.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
In Ontario, very much so there’ll be shows where the assistants are managing and transcoding and syncing, but then there’s the bigger shows where the lab does it and then the assistants just gets everything and bins, and then they organize and they prep everything in the avid for the editor.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Generally here, it’s always the lab that preps everything, even on docs and low budget stuff. Yeah, it’s good because there’s plenty, like we were saying, there’s plenty for the assistants to do otherwise already.

Sarah Taylor:
And Edmonton, or for me, some shows will say, “Okay, you can have an assistant.” And then I’ll be like, “Yay.” And then recently I’ve just been like, “Okay, I’m going to just hire you to do this for me because I’m busy on this other project, so can you sync and organize my footage?” And it’s been working great, but I’m just going out and doing that because I want to save my time. And so, assistants are important. Thank you, assistants. Thank you a lot.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Especially nowadays too, for all of us, I find that the expectation with less time to do it, fully temp scored, fully sound designed, fully temp visual effects. It’s like a massive undertaking. And there’s two of us.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That’s right. In Montreal, we don’t really have that American sort of structure of first and second assistants. It’s just like everyone does everything and everyone pitches in. And some people just like, it’s just their… It’s luck of the draw. Someone happens to know After Effects, someone happens to be really great with music or sound effects or whatever. And then so you just go like, “oh, okay, you.” And that?s when division of labor happens kind of that way. It’s just a bit random, but that’s Quebec, it’s very not hierarchical. It’s just all hands on deck. So that’s the way it works here. But it’s not something you want to rely on, but that’s generally the way it works.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I miss the hierarchy, in terms of training opportunities, because it’s a real shame that we… That’s how you learn. You learn by watching, you learn by seeing what other people do and you get that experience that when the assistants were busy, they’d throw the second assistant, “Okay, you do this temp score, can you figure out this visual effect?” And it would be, we’d be so exciting. It’d be like, “Oh my God, I could do something other than paperwork.” And it’s sad because I think a lot of people are being thrown into, especially now, thrown into situations where they’re not prepared and they’re not trained. And it can backfire, obviously, for everybody’s sake. And so, I think it really, and especially now that we are working more remotely, the people are saying it’s even harder to get learning opportunities. And I think that’s something that we really have to be aware of and figure out a way to work, because it’s our future and things seem to get busy, but we need to really look at the…It shouldn’t always and it’s this whole thing we’re all going through right now with this horrible incident that happened in the States on the set of Rust, where there’s a definite hierarchy for a certain reason. And traditionally, that hierarchy has been, sometimes it’s for safety, sometimes it’s for respect, sometimes it’s for communication, sometimes it’s for politics. There’s many, many reasons why this hierarchy, over time, has been the way it’s always been. And to lose that now because of budget, if we aren’t careful, it’s going to really impact our ability to work properly and to serve the client’s needs, which are huge, big studio, sometimes, expensive things if they aren’t getting what they want.
So it really would be my plea somehow to say to producers and people who are in charge of budgets to really not look at being a hero to save money, 5 cents, to look good for the production. When in fact if you spent more and supported your team and trained people so that we can work together towards the future where we all learn and we all… how I was privileged to have come up the ranks of that system, it would just make this world a better place, and it would be less stressed and more happy people.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, totally.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And better creativity, I think too. You got more minds working on it. It’s just going to get better.

Sarah Taylor:
Well, that kind of brings into another question. Our working conditions, our working hours, what is it like? In our different areas of the world? Of course, in light of what happened on the set of Rust and with IATSE and the States wanting to strike, how are things in your world? For me, luckily, because I’m working by myself and my house. I do an eight-hour day. I don’t push myself… sometimes it’s only six hours, depending on where my creativity is that day. But as long as I meet my deadlines and get things done, I’m okay. I had to learn to do that. I had to force myself to be like, these are my working hours, so I need to make sure that I can try to learn how to be creative in these hours and not burn the candle or whatever they say, midnight oil, because I have a young family. So for me, once that happened, I like, “I can’t do this.” I can’t function as a human working 10 to 12-hour days and then trying to be a mom. So I made that choice, but I know that’s not the choice that’s easy, that can be made by many other people. So I’m curious, how does it work in the other parts of Canada?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Work-life balance is so important to me, presently. I used to be one of those guys, years ago, where it was like, I’ll work as long as I can, hours upon hours to get the work done. But then, you slowly realize, or you get better at actually being more productive in the shorter amount of time. And then, once I had a family, I was like, “I can’t do that anymore.” So what I started doing was actually going into work super early, like you know 6, 6:30, so that by the time everybody starts rolling in, I’ve done half the stuff that I needed to do for that day. So I’m less stressed and I can leave when… there’s still going to be late nights, there’s still going to be a cut is due, and I’m a bit behind and that’s still going to happen. But I try to make sure that that’s not every day, and as long as it’s not… and I get to see my family at the end of the day and chill and relax and then go in the next morning, that’s really important. I think that eventually everybody should strive for that ideal.

Sarah Taylor:
I think that those conversations we’re having more, where we’re like, “We need to be human,” and I feel like something I always like to share with younger editors is that you need to bring life to your edit suites too. You’re telling stories about life, but if you’re not living life, then… you need to be part of life too. And so, I think that’s really important. And also the morning times. It’s probably super nice to go into the office, it’s quiet, nobody’s there usually that early. I would get so much work done if-

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I love it. I was always a night owl until I had kids. Then I was like, “Okay. Forget that.” And it’s great leaving early in the morning because the kids aren’t up yet, so you get to sneak out.

Sarah Taylor:
There’s no traffic, probably, that’s pretty sweet.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Exactly.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s awesome.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
My routine is, I get up at seven and get my kids off to school, and then I’m in the office at 9 and I don’t leave until maybe 12 at night. But that’s not because I’m editing the show necessarily, it’s also because I’m trying to run a business and do other things here. And sometimes I’m just in the office taking a few hour breaks, watching movies and TV shows to just be a little bit more aware of what’s going out there and stuff. And because I cut predominantly comedy, I try to watch comedy from all over the world as much as possible just to get a sense of what other people might think is funny. So that keeps me busy. And then the weekends are totally my family time. That’s it. No emails, no phone calls, unless the building’s burning down.

Sarah Taylor:
I just want to quickly, as a sidebar, what’s the most recent thing comedy wise you’ve watched from somewhere else in the world that you were like, “That’s great.”

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Oh, okay. It’s going to make me sound like a weirdo, but I do watch a lot of weird shows. There’s this thing called Last One Laughing on Amazon Prime, and it started off in Japan. And then there’s been an Australian, and a German, and Italian, and Spanish, and Mexican one, and Indian one. I’ve watched every different country’s versions. I just finished watching the second season of the German one, and it’s ten comedians locked in a room for six hours, where they try to make each other laugh, but if they laugh, they get voted out and the last one at the end wins all the money.

Sarah Taylor:
I love it.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That’s awesome.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And actually, there’s supposed to be a Canadian one that Jay Baruchel is rumored to be hosting, but I don’t think they’ve shot it yet. And that’s something I’d like to work on, or at least maybe get one of the Trailer Park Boys on, see if they can survive.

Sarah Taylor:
I would not.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I was just going to say that I think, for people to keep in mind is to know your worth and take care of yourself. Because, as a younger person, I didn’t do that. I didn’t know my worth, I didn’t know that somebody asked you to do something you kind of felt was inappropriate, you just did it because it was like, “Oh my God, I’ll never work again.” And I guess now I’m just starting now, as old as I am, to have a confidence to say, “No, this isn’t right. I’m not being treated right.” So saying no sometimes can be a good thing. And it’s taken me a long time to learn that. And I think if more of us do that, I think it might be a better working conditions for everybody. So does this really have to go out tonight?
Does it really? Or can this wait till tomorrow? Because I’m very aware of schedules, I’m very responsible, I work very hard. But I think there’s a certain point where you have to let… and I try to, when I’m working with directors or producers, they say, “We need to get this done.” I have to say to them, “Look, let’s bring the assistant in and let’s find out how long this is going to take, and how late in the night is that assistant going to be here to make sure that this gets out. And are you really wanting this assistant to stay till X amount of time?” And I involve the assistant so that they can say… we block it out. Because I think people don’t real… a lot of people don’t have a clue what we do, and they certainly don’t know what assistants do, and they certainly don’t know how long it takes.
So when they ask for things, and things happen, like they always happen, magically in post. And I find that when I bring people in and have that discussion, that directors and producers will go, “Do the best you can.” There’s leeway, but you can not guilt them into it, but go, “Guys, how important is this?” And I don’t think a lot of people do that. And I do think that I wish that, again, as a collective whole, we start doing that, because it can wait for the most part.

Sarah Taylor:
Well, there’s moments where it’s like, is the broadcaster actually going to watch this on Friday at five in the afternoon?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Exactly.

Sarah Taylor:
They’re not going to watch it till Monday.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
I’m on the wrong show to be asking this question right now.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s reality though, it’s the reality of lives. What’s it like everywhere?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
I really love what everyone’s been saying, but it is the kind of show where none of those things apply. There’s two different situations. One is where you’re like, “I’m not going to let this go out until it’s as good as it can possibly be.” And then there is like, “I am here for 10 extra hours because of someone else not doing their part.” So those are the difficult ones, for sure. But I do try and find, some days I’ll work 16 hours, but some days I’ll work four and I’ll leave. So I find my ways to make it feel equitable, but sometimes you’re working with people who have zero consideration for what happens downstream. And that’s just the way it is.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And that happens a lot. That does happen a lot.

Sarah Taylor:
We touched a little bit on it, both, I believe Annie and Roderick have worked out of their district, you could say. But Lee had asked, how did you manage the tax credit thing? What has everybody’s experience been working in other areas of the world?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Well, I was working on a co-pro, I guess it was co-pro where I was working in LA, but I was being paid by a Canadian company. And that’s how that worked out. And then I was hired by a BC company to do MOW, and then last year I did a co-pro with France. So I spent a month there, but that was it. In terms of the structuring of the finances, it was a little of this, a little of that, but generally still, it’s mostly the Quebec tax credit that determines my gigs for sure.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I’m fairly new to working out of Ontario. I haven’t actually started the BC show yet, that’s in a couple of weeks. But in the end, it’s like if they want to hire somebody outside of their province, then it’s their purview to lose whatever tax credit they want for that talent that they’re trying to get in. So I think that was what happened to me. I’m not sure what the distinction that was. And as everything everybody’s been saying, it’s been easier, or more acceptable, to do that now. I think people are looking outside of their bubble in terms of where they’re at to really try to find the best possible people for the job. To Jeremy’s point, I do support, and wish, that they did actually start for where they are and start looking. And if there’s nobody there, then start looking elsewhere. But I feel like I’m a bit of… I feel guilty because I worked on Chapelwaite, which is shot in Nova Scotia, but then posted in Toronto. I’m working on Billy the Kid, which is shot in Calgary now.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Cool.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s cool though. That’s great.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
The thing is, but it’s not as if they’re like, “We’re going to shoot here, and then we’re going to find somewhere else.” I think it’s different. I think they find the servicing production or where they want to base their post and then they go, “Where do we want to shoot?” I think sometimes it’s the other way. So they’ve settled into where their home base is and then they find the location that fits their genre, their project.

Sarah Taylor:
Or there’s a comfort, they’ve worked in that production house before and so this is where we’re going to go back.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Exactly. And then, from the LA thing to going up to BC and then going, “Well, I want to go home and cut.”

Sarah Taylor:
I want to spend eight months cutting in my home instead of-

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Exactly. So it’s challenging.

Sarah Taylor:
And I think with remote editing, now, we’re figuring out, there’s lots of great software out there that we can do remote sessions with. The opportunities could open up. For me, I’ve worked with a company out in Italy during COVID, but they were specifically like, “We want to do this project that’s kind of COVID related and we want to work with editors from around the world.” So they went out and looked for people from different places. And so they had an editor in Australia, they had me in Canada, they had somebody, I think, somebody from the States.
I think the opportunities can be there. It’s just how we get our names out into the international market. How do we make people know that we exist, and like Annie’s saying, that we actually can edit. We’re not just, “Not at all.” And I don’t know in Canada being… I don’t know what they would think we’re doing like that. We watch Netflix, we watch all the same shows, we understand the pop culture references. I think that’s interesting. And another question I had was? other than the CCE, because this is the best editing organization in Canada, are there any other local organizations that you are part of or have been part of in the past that has helped you in your career or in your creative journeys?
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [01:15:04]
Sarah Taylor:
… in the past that has helped you in your career or in your creative journeys?

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I’m involved … within the DGC in Ontario, a bunch of us editors have gotten together actually, and formed our own little, not official DGC, but a BIPOC diversity and inclusion committee that we actually have this … we started it back in April when lockdown started, and this all has to do with diversity inclusion training, building crews, building stronger crews within Ontario through either courses and training and mentorship and all that stuff. Organizations like that exist, and I know that the CCE does their own mentorship thing too, as well. And also there’s other organizations like that in Toronto, like the BIPOC Film & TV, where you can join up and be a part of a community that’s all headed towards the same goal of trying to be successful and support each other in doing that. So there are lots of organizations like that, that you can network and meet people and make connections, and then down the line work on stuff together.

Sarah Taylor:
There’s one in Alberta called Creatives Empowered, and it’s another BIPOC organization specifically for creatives in all arts. And they started up probably around right after COVID hit. And they’ve been doing lots of really great things here. And then my last question, what are you working on right now? And what might be coming out soon for us to watch? I have a request for Lisa to tell me when Zombies 3 is going to be released, because my daughter’s very excited and wants to know, will there be Zombies number four?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Well, I guess I’ll go, because I’m currently working on Zombies 3 and we just got our test screening notes back. They don’t have an air date, but it’ll be sometime, I think in the spring of next year. And you know what? I can’t say. But I think it will be hopeful that it will go on-

Sarah Taylor:
Excellent.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
In some way, shape, or form. Yeah, it’s a really fun… I got to say, it’s such an amazing… The cast is incredible. These young people are so talented and they do everything, they sing, they dance, they do their own stunts, they’re funny, they’re dramatic. And they have a really great chemistry. They have a whole new people that have come in and they all click so well. I’m so blown away, because I don’t know what I was doing at their age, but it certainly wasn’t… I’m just blown away by the talent that is there.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s great. Well, we’ve watched Zombies 1 and 2 on repeat for quite some time, well, I quite enjoyed it.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And the music, the music’s incredible.

Sarah Taylor:
I think it’s so fun.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yeah, it is.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. I don’t mind sitting down and watching it with her, so I was like, “Yeah, I’m talking to the Zombies editor today.” She’s like, “What?” So you’re a rockstar in our house.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Wow.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I didn’t realize, it’s very popular. Apparently it’s a huge hit worldwide too, so it’s-

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, that’s great.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And then I’m going to start on hopefully, a series called Reginald the Vampire. So I’m going from zombies to vampires.

Sarah Taylor:
I love it. That’s great. Jeremy, what’s up for you?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I just finished a show that was based off of a Facebook and YouTube group called Tracy and Martina. They’re two Cape Bretoners that are basically like Jersey Shore Cape Bretoners in a way. And that’s a weird comedy to work on, because I am in Nova Scotia and I do know a lot of Cape Bretoners, but there’s some things that they’re saying that are just, it’s a different language, it’s a different universe. And then of course, I do whatever trailer park stuff the guys do, because they own their own website. So they do podcasts weekly and their own little series and stuff, and yeah, that keeps me busy.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Jeremy, what’s your post-production facility called?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Digiboyz.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, I like it.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Digiboyz.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
All right.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
That makes sense.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s right, it does.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
It was because way back in the day, I started it with Clattenburg.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And we were at a coffee shop and he’s like, “Yeah, let’s start a post house.” And I’m like, “Uhhh.Okay.” I think I was 20 at the time.

Sarah Taylor:
Wow.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
That’s amazing.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah. And that’s the name we came up with because of Trailer Park Boys.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s so good.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I’m just wrapping up Billy the Kid, just waiting for my final notes before I lock. And then I’m starting that BC show, which is a CBC mini-series called Bones of Crows. It’s a five part mini series, it’s about residential schools. And yeah, so I’ll be working remotely for the first time for a while during the winter. And then in January I might see you, Lisa, because I’ll be over there for about two months.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Oh, that’s cool.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah. And then still working out there and then-

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And the best time of year to be in Vancouver.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yes, that’s what everybody says, and they’re all trying to sell me on it, and it’s going to be awesome. And I’m so looking forward to it, because I’ve always wanted to be out west. So yeah, I’m very, very looking forward to it.

Sarah Taylor:
And Annie, I have to say, I watched the first episode of Ghosts. I quite enjoyed it.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
It’s a very cute show. I have to say, it’s really fun and working on comedy as a lot of you know, is just the most demanding and surgical and precise kind of editing that you could do. And it’s wonderful for your chops. It’s been really great working on that show. And the writers are very funny and it’s a sweet show. The cast is? it’s like a big cast, and they’re all at the top of their game, so it’s a very fun show to do. I’ve got a few more episodes on that. And then Transplant just got renewed for season three, so I’ll be doing that sometime in the new year.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Which is a great series.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Thank you. Thank you very much. Really, that’s wonderful to work on. Joseph Kay, the creator is just like a dream to work with. He really appreciates editing. And again, the performances are really great. And there’s a little gap in the middle there, but it seems like there’s a lot of stuff happening in town, so I’m hopeful. I’m hopeful. Let’s see.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s great. For myself, I’m working on a lifestyle TV series called Rodeo Nation, and it’s about indigenous rodeo in Alberta.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Oh, cool.

Sarah Taylor:
And that’s been super fun. And I just wrapped on a CBC version of a doc called The Last Baron, which is about a burger joint called the Burger Baron, and it is run by Lebanese immigrants. And so we’re now expanding it into a feature film, which was going to be called the Lebanese Burger Mafia.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Oh, great.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Excellent.

Sarah Taylor:
And yeah, we found that with the 46 or 44, whatever, 30 that we had to tell the story was not enough time. There was so many amazing stories of the journey these people made to come to Canada, and so we’re going to expand on that. And the filmmaker is the son of a Baron, so his dad owned a Burger Baron when he was growing up. So he decided to investigate, “Well, where did this come from? Why are all these Burger Barons owned by Lebanese families? What is happening?” So we unpacked all that. So that’s on CBC Gem if you want to learn about burgers. And then promptly eat a burger, because it’s very tasty looking at all that stuff. So then I’ve eaten a lot of Burger Baron in the last few months.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
For research purposes.

Sarah Taylor:
Yes, totally. And actually, I went to Burger Baron on Saturday, and the owner who’s in the doc was serving me, so I said to my daughter, “Hey, that’s the guy that’s in the documentary I worked on.” And she’s like, “Are you going to tell him that?” I was like, “Yeah, probably.” And so I said, “Hey,” and he’s like, “Oh my goodness.” And then he wanted to buy us something. Anyway, it was so sweet. And I’m like, “I know everything about you and you know nothing about me.”

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
“You have no idea who I am.”

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, “I’m this strange random blonde lady.” So yeah, they were all very sweet people, and yeah, it’s been fun.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Annie, did they improvise quite a bit on Ghosts?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Not at all.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
That’s good. Oh, really? Why?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Well, no, that’s not true. They improvised a lot and we didn’t use any of the ad libs. Yeah, no, there was a writer on set, and so they tried stuff, but generally I would say maybe 5% of the ad libs survived into the cut, yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Is that show based on a UK show?

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That’s right.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah, okay.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
The BBC show is in the second season only, and CBS bought it and remade it with most of the same characters, but a few sort of more American?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Americanized, yeah.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
They do that with everything.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah, basically. Basically, yeah. But the two creators, very smart guys, very funny guys. They did New Girl and they’re really sharp and they have a good crew. But the actors are really amazing. And the crew in Montreal is spectacular. They rebuilt the whole house that they had made, that was a set in LA and they made it here in Montreal, and it looks amazing, I think, better than the pilot. So yeah, it’s really, really good.

Sarah Taylor:
Farid is asking, “What software did you train on before applying for jobs?” He says, “I heard Premiere for small productions and Avid for big ones. What do you suggest?” I cut Premiere, but I’ve worked on all of them. I think it’s good to know all of them.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah, I think that’s my advice, is know as much as you can. There’s always, “Avid’s the best,” or “Premiere is the best.” But for me, it’s like, no, it’s all going to churn out the same exact product, it’s you, it’s you that’s pressing the buttons, and that’s what creates the magic. But the more you know and feel comfortable about different software and different platforms, the better you’ll be when you do get a job. And you might not know everything about Avid, but at least if you’re familiar with it, then you can learn it. If you’re Premiere Pro proficient and you dive into Avid, you’ll learn what that language is and then you’ll pick it up and then away you go. So just don’t be intimidated by different technologies and things like that.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah, I think Premiere is great for productions that are sort of all in the box, so it’s really good to know that, especially if you’re starting out and you’re trying to build your reel and you’re going to be the whole show. Avid, it’s just for big series and stuff, it’s just a much more solid platform in terms of the file management and everything. It’s just for me, much more reliable.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
When I’m on a scripted, I’m on Avid, when I’m on docs, I’m on Premiere. That’s the way I like to work. Although with Script Sync, I want to try Avid and docs using that?[inaudible 01;30;03;23]

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I’m going to blow all your minds.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Oh yes.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I cut Final Cut Pro.

Sarah Taylor:
No.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Oh, no.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And I have forever.

Sarah Taylor:
Final Cut X or whatever it’s called?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Seven?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Ten?

Sarah Taylor:
Ten?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
X, yeah. Nope.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Seven.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Seven, I started with it-

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, I was a seven before too.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Me too.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I started when it was a Beta, and then I went to all the way up to X. And I do have Avid, I do have Premiere, and I do have DaVinci.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
But I’m way faster in Final Cut.

Sarah Taylor:
Okay. Tell us, why did you stay? Not that it’s bad, I’m just curious.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Why?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Why did I stay in it?

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Annie, why?

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, I know it’s gotten better. Obviously, I haven’t tried it.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Well, there definitely are limitations and stuff, but when they introduced roles in Final Cut, that just sealed it for me, because I could do multiple outputs and just from one timeline turn off the other roles, and they’re just gone, done. And for me, the turnaround is much faster with our workflow and stuff.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That makes sense.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
The Premiere has a lot of things going for it, but I also don’t like paying for software over and over and over. I have one account and everyone’s using that Final Cut, and I haven’t had to pay for Final Cut ever since I bought X way back in the day.

Sarah Taylor:
Right.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
And now it’s like $300 or something. It’s really cheap.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
That’s what it was when I bought it.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Okay. Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And it’s what? I don’t know. I think when-

Sarah Taylor:
That was 10 years ago, I feel like. It was a long time ago.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah, I think so.

Sarah Taylor:
Wow.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
But when I was starting out, I was on Media 100.

Sarah Taylor:
Me too.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Wow. I loved that.

Sarah Taylor:
You had two tracks.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah, the limitation, and then you’d export stuff-

Sarah Taylor:
You had two tracks and-

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And bring it back into the graphics stack to get it burnt?[inaudible 01;31;53;09].

Sarah Taylor:
There was no nesting or… What I remember when I found Final Cut, I think it was on Final Cut 3 and I’m like, “99 tracks of video.” And now I’m like, “Two tracks. I only use two tracks when I clean it up.” But yeah, oh, Media 100.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Amazing.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
So yes, I am using Final Cut, and I do pass it off to people onlining and sometimes I online my own stuff in DaVinci.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, so they worked out those kinks, kind of?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Not all of them.

Sarah Taylor:
Or you figured out the workaround?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah. Which we do, I think we do in all of the softwares, there’s like, “Oh, it doesn’t do that, but I can do it this way.”

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
That’s right. Or you buy a third party program, that maps it out.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, Automatic Duck.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s what I used to use.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I haven’t used that in a while, but yeah, I remember Automatic Duck.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s how I talked to the Avid when I was on Final Cut Pro.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That’s right.

Sarah Taylor:
I love it. Is there one project or series or something that you’ve worked on in your career that has left a real lasting impression on you as a human or as an editor?

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Good or bad impression?

Sarah Taylor:
Both. That could be… Yeah, take it in that direction. Why not? “I’ll never work with so-and-so again, because of this project.”

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
There was a director who would work with me, and when he wanted me to make a cut, he punched me in the arm.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
What?

Sarah Taylor:
That’s awful.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And that is definitely not a person I ever worked with again.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
No.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
There’s been directors who have like done the *snap* this and I stop. And I’m like, “Okay, no, that’s not happening. We’re not doing that.” But then they actually think that that’s okay, “Cut there.”

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Right now.

Sarah Taylor:
I had somebody who would stamp the desk, “Right here.”

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
And they don’t realize there is a lag, you might do that, but when I hit the keyboard, it’s not going to be right there.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
No.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Any positive ones? End it on a positive note. I’m just kidding, Jeremy, you gave us good stuff, [inaudible 01;33;50;29].

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
I probably have a positive one somewhere, I know. I loved working on Durham County. I got to say, it was probably the first time where I was like, “Ooh, Canadian TV could be really good.” It was dark and terrible and you hated all the characters. But at the same time, I felt like it was the first show that I ever worked on where it was close to my sensibility and we could really dig in. And the filmmakers were very daring and everyone was on board. That was very inspiring to work on that show.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I was a fan of that show when that aired. I loved it.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Oh, thanks. Cool.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
A highlight for me was working on a show called the L Word.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Oh, it was great.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Oh, yeah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
The original series.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Right.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, it was so good.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Awesome.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I know it’s going back a few years, but when you’re working on something at the time, you kind of know it’s special. And I knew it was very special at the time, but as the years have gone further away from it, you look back going, “God, we were so fortunate to have that opportunity.” And just the filmmakers that we were introduced to that we would never in my lifetime, ever get a chance to meet and talk to and learn from. And it was treated very much like an independent film. The showrunner, Ilene Chaiken, she was really good about letting the directors have their cut, and it was a respected cut. It wasn’t like, “Okay, get out of the chair, next.” Which sometimes happens, as we all know. But it was a great filmmaking experience, and again, it was revolutionary for its time, now it’s not so much. But at the time it was incredible. And they had incredible-

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Absolutely.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Guests, appearances. It was iconic, and it was really a highlight for me.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
A highlight that I had, one of my most memorable ones was working on a documentary feature called David and Me. It was about, back in the eighties, a 16-year-old was convicted of murder and he was innocent. And so the director of the film befriended him, and as we were making his story, the director was actively investigating and trying to come up with new evidence to exonerate him. By the time our schedule ended, nothing new surfaced, so we had to end the film with him still in prison. And the film was released and the district attorney in New York City saw it and opened it back up, and a few months later he was released.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Wow.

Sarah Taylor:
Wow.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Not that it was the cause, not that it was the reason he was released, but they were like, “Okay, we got to look into this.” So they opened it up again and he became part of a series of all these wrongfully convicted kids back in the eighties that were then released. And actually the filmmakers went back, we shot his release and we recut the film with the new one at the end.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Oh, cool.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
So good.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah, so that was really just amazing, and we got to meet him. And it was such a personal story for the director and just the investment that the ownership everybody had that was working on it. And Rubin Carter was in it too, ?the Hurricane?.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Because he was a big champion of the guy. And yeah, so that was pretty special to be a part of.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
That’s when you’re making a difference.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
I think we all want to work on things that affect people’s lives.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I did have a positive note, it took me a while to figure it out.

Sarah Taylor:
Last one. Let’s do it.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Okay.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Jeremy.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
For me, it was working with Cory Bowles on Black Cop.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Oh, yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
That was the first dramatic thing that I cut in many, many years.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Oh, wow.

Sarah Taylor:
It was so good. You did such a good job.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Well, it’s a lot of him, you got to know that if you know Cory, right? But just working with him and the way he works and the synergy that we could have, no ego, that is the best kind of cutting for me.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
I’d love to have that on everything, where I do something, he does something, my assistant cut a scene that he watched it. It was just everyone’s in it to win it.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
That’s good stuff.

Sarah Taylor:
That’s the best one, when everybody’s egos are out of the game. We’re just there to create the best that the piece can be.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, it feels so good. Feels so good. Well, on that note, thank you everybody for joining tonight. This has been an awesome conversation. And thanks for all the people here that asked questions, and I hope everybody took a little bit of something with them. And maybe one day soon we can all get together in real life.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
That would be great.

Sarah Taylor:
That would be amazing.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
I know.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Thanks.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
It was so nice talking to you guys.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
Yeah.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Yeah.

Roderick Deogrades, CCE:
It was great to meet all of you.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Yeah, really.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Getting different perspectives from across the country, which is really cool.

Sarah Taylor:
Yeah, yeah. No matter where you are, you can do it. You can get a job. Just put yourself out there. You can do it. Awesome.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Thank you, Sarah.

Sarah Taylor:
Okay.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
You did a great job.

Sarah Taylor:
Oh, thank you.

Jeremy Harty, CCE:
Thanks, Sarah.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Yes. Thanks, Sarah.

Sarah Taylor:
Bye everybody. Have a good night. Thanks, everybody. Bye.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
All right.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Good night.

Annie Ilkow, CCE:
Take care.

Lisa Binkley, CCE:
Thank you.

Sarah Taylor:
Thank you so much for joining us today, and a big thanks goes out to Annie, Jeremy, Lisa, and Roderick. Special thanks goes to Kimberlee McTaggart, CCE and Alison Dowler. The main title sound design was created by Jane Tattersall. ADR recording by Andrea Rusch. Original music by Chad Blain and Soundstring. This episode was mixed and mastered by Tony Bao.

The CCE has been supporting Indspire, an organization that provides funding and scholarships for indigenous post-secondary students. We have a permanent portal on our website at cceditors.ca. Or you can donate directly to indspire.ca, I-N-D-S-P-I-R-E dot C-A. The CCE is taking steps to build a more equitable ecosystem within our industry, and we encourage our members to participate in any way they can. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends to tune in. Till next time, I’m your host, Sarah Taylor.

[Outro]
The CCE is a nonprofit organization with the goal of bettering the art and science of picture editing. If you wish to become a CCE member, please visit our website, www.cceditors.ca. Join our great community of Canadian editors for more related info.

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l'EditCon 2022

l'EditCon 2022

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« Le montage c'est comme une passion...La découverte de tout un monde dans lequel on s'apprête à entrer. »
Arthur Tarnowski, ACE
Monteur, LES OISEAUX IVRES

Le CCE a tenu sa 5e édition de l'EditCon en ligne, avec deux jours formidables de tables rondes, de discussions en salles virtuelles et de réseautage réunissant plus de deux cents participant.e.s du Canada et de partout dans le monde.

Présenté sous le thème « Le Meilleur des mondes », nous avons eu la chance d'accueillir les monteur·euse·s des séries addictives TED LASSO, CHRONIQUES DE BRIDGERTON et SORT OF, ainsi que des films à succès de l'année comme SHANG-CHI ET LA LÉGENDE DES DIX ANNEAUX, LES ÉTERNELS et SOS FANTÔMES : L’AU-DELÀ. D'autres tables rondes mettaient en vedette les monteur·euse·s de ALL MY PUNY SORROWS, SCARBOROUGH, LES OISEAUX IVRES et NIGHT RAIDERS (des films qui figuraient dans le Top 10 du TIFF!) de même que de A CURE FOR A COMMON CLASSROOM et BETRAYAL.

L'EditCon ne serait pas ce qu'il est sans un bon vieux tirage, réalisé grâce aux dons de nos généreux commanditaires. Par la suite, les participant·e·s ont pu bavarder dans un salon de réseautage virtuel. 

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Présenté en anglais

Conférence en français

2022 Panelists EditCon

JOUR 1

« J'ai une réaction émotive devant les performances et j'essaie de monter rapidement avec mon intuition plutôt qu'avec ma tête. »
Michelle Szemberg, CCE
Michelle Szemberg, CCE
Monteuse, ALL MY PUNY SORROWS

Le cinéma canadien en 2021

2021 a vu l’industrie du cinéma revenir en force avec une ardeur jamais vue. Cette forte résurgence nous a apporté une pléthore d’histoires d’ici, à la fois puissantes et diverses, comme le drame familial touchant ALL MY PUNY SORROWS, le brillant et cru SCARBOROUGH, le film qui représentera le Canada aux Oscars, LES OISEAUX IVRES, et le thriller de science-fiction haletant, NIGHT RAIDERS. Les monteur·euse·s de ces exceptionnelles productions canadiennes vous convient à cette conversation intime sur l’art de raconter des histoires.

Simone Smith-SQSimone Smith est une monteuse de cinéma et de télévision primée basée à Toronto. Elle a notamment collaboré aux productions FIRECRACKERS, GOALIE et NEVER STEADY, NEVER STILL. Elle a récemment terminé le montage de la série THE LAKE pour Amazon. Elle travaille présentement au long métrage FLOAT, mettant en vedette Andrea Bang et Robbie Amell, pour Lionsgate.

Orlee BuiumOrlee Buium est une monteuse qui se passionne pour les films porteurs d’un contenu socialement engagé. Elle cumule 15 années d’expérience dans le domaine du montage, notamment en tant qu’assistante-monteuse sur KICK-ASS 2, THE EXPANSE et LA GALERIE DES CŒURS BRISÉS. Comme monteuse, elle a travaillé entre autres sur QUEEN OF THE MORNING CALM (qui a été nommé aux prix GCR pour meilleur montage), THE RETREAT (Showtime) et RUN WOMAN RUN. Plus récemment, Orlee a bouclé le montage du dernier long métrage de Michael McGowan, ALL MY PUNY SORROWS, qui a été dévoilé au TIFF 2021 lors d’une présentation spéciale.

Jorge Weisz, CCEJorge Weisz, CCE, est né et a grandi à Mexico et vit présentement à Toronto. Il a travaillé sur des films primés comme EMPIRE OF DIRT de Peter Stebbings, qui a été présenté au TIFF en 2013, LES FILLES D’AVRIL de Michel Franco, qui a remporté le prix du jury dans la section Un certain regard à Cannes en 2017, et plus récemment sur NIGHT RAIDERS, de Danis Goulet, qui a eu sa première à la Berlinale en 2021. En ce moment, il fait de nouveau équipe avec Christian Sparkes pour le film SWEETLAND.

Michelle Szemberg, CCEAprès avoir obtenu son diplôme du programme de cinéma à l’université York, Michelle a travaillé longtemps comme assistante-monteuse. Ceci lui a permis de côtoyer les plus grands noms du cinéma canadien et d’apprendre énormément à leurs côtés. En tant que monteuse, elle a travaillé entre autres sur NATASHA, SOUS SES LÈVRES, BETWEEN, UN TRADUCTOR (présenté à Sundance en 2018) et TROUVER LE NORD. Son dernier film, qui a remporté un prix GCR, est ALL MY PUNY SORROWS, présenté au TIFF en 2021.

Arthur TarnowskiArthur Tarnowski, ACE est un monteur prolifique qui se passionne pour tous les genres, autant les films d’auteurs que les comédies populaires, en passant par les films d’action. Parmi les longs métrages qu’il a montés, on retrouve : LES OISEAUX IVRES, BEST SELLERS, JUSQU’AU DÉCLIN, LE PROJET HUMMINGBIRD, LA CHUTE DE L’EMPIRE AMÉRICAIN, LE TROTSKY, BRICK MANSIONS, CHUTE MORTELLE, WHITEWASH et MENTEUR. En télévision, il a monté entre autres : 19-2, BAD BLOOD, BEING HUMAN, MOHAWK GIRLS, LES MOODYS et VIRAGE. Il a également conçu plus de 150 bandes-annonces de films, incluant plusieurs succès du Box-office québécois.

Rich WilliamsonRich Williamson est un réalisateur torontois qui a été nommé aux Oscars. Son travail est un heureux mélange de fiction et de documentaire qui porte une attention toute particulière aux questions sociales. SCARBOROUGH est son premier long métrage de fiction dirigé avec sa partenaire et co-réalisatrice Shasha Nakhai. Il a été présenté en première mondiale en 2021 au TIFF, où il a remporté le prix Changemaker de la Fondation Shawn Mendes, est arrivé deuxième pour le prix du public et a reçu une mention honorable pour meilleur long métrage canadien.

« Laisser les personnages vivre leurs émotions et leur donner l'espace nécessaire pour le faire. Ces personnages sont irrésistibles et nous voulions passer du temps avec eux. »
Melissa McCoy, ACE
Melissa McCoy, ACE
Monteuse, TED LASSO

Remanier le scénario

L’ère de la diffusion en ligne est là pour rester. Nous avons connu un boom de productions remarquables, mais comment se démarquer dans une telle abondance? Que ce soit en rejetant le cliché de l’antagonisme pour créer la trame narrative de TED LASSO, en se servant de la comédie pour émailler la vie des personnages non-binaires dans SORT OF, en montrant des personnages familiers sous de nouveaux angles dans WANDAVISION ou en dynamisant le drame d’époque à l’aide d’une plus grande diversité dans LA CHRONIQUE DES BRIDGERTON, les séries font maintenant la preuve que l’abandon des anciens codes mène au succès. Joignez-vous aux monteur·euse·s de ces fabuleuses émissions quand elles et ils discuteront de leurs approches innovantes en matière de narration.

D. Gillian Truster, CCEGillian est une monteuse basée à Toronto et qui a touché tant aux séries dramatiques qu’aux longs métrages et aux téléfilms en tous genres. Elle a eu la chance de pouvoir travailler avec plusieurs producteur·trices·, réalisateur·trice·s et scénaristes reconnus et célébré·e·s. Gillian est notamment connue pour son travail sur SANS ORIGINE : ORPHAN BLACK, ANNE WITH AN E et THE EXPANSE. Elle a remporté deux prix Écrans canadiens, un prix de la GCR et elle a reçu douze nominations.

Melissa McCoy, ACEMelissa a eu la piqûre du montage alors qu’elle étudiait à l’université Western Michigan. Elle s’est ensuite rendue en Californie où elle a obtenu une maîtrise en montage au Dodge College of Film & Media Arts de l’université Chapman. En 2007, elle a lancé sa carrière en décrochant un stage très convoité auprès de l’ACE. Melissa a travaillé entre autres sur LIFE SENTENCE pour CW et WHISKEY CAVALIER pour ABC. Son travail sur TED LASSO lui a valu un prix Eddie et une nomination aux Emmy en 2021.

Nona Khodai, ACENona Khodai est une monteuse de cinéma installée en Californie du Sud. Ses plus récents projets sont la série Marvel WANDAVISION et l’émission THE BOYS, pour Amazon. Elle a aussi travaillé sur REVOLUTION, COLONY, THE STRAIN et HISTOIRES FANTASTIQUES. Elle monte actuellement une autre série pour Disney +, à paraître plus tard cette année.

Omar MajeedOmar Majeed est un écrivain, monteur et réalisateur pakistano-canadien. Parmi ses contributions au montage, on compte CHASSEURS DE FRUIT, OMEGA MAN : A WRESTLING LOVE STORY, WORLD IN A CITY, INSIDE LARA ROXX, THE ARTISTS: THE PIONEERS BEHIND THE PIXELS et SORT OF. En 2018, il a reçu un prix Écrans canadiens pour son travail sur THE ARTISTS et en 2001 pour QUEERTELEVISION. Après avoir vécu, entre autres, à Montréal, Baltimore et Lahore, Omar est aujourd’hui installé à Toronto avec sa femme et leur jeune enfant.

Jim Flynn, ACEJim Flynn est un monteur né aux États-Unis. Il a étudié le cinéma au collège Emerson à Boston. Il a ensuite déménagé à Los Angeles où il a d’abord travaillé en tant qu’assistant-monteur. Il est devenu monteur quand il a formé équipe avec Alan Heim pour travailler sur M LE ALPHA de Nick Cassavetes. Il a monté plusieurs autres films de Cassavetes incluant MA VIE POUR LA TIENNE et L’AUTRE FEMME. Plus récemment, Jim a travaillé sur des séries pour Netflix, dont LA DERNIÈRE DEMEURE DES HILL et LA CHRONIQUE DES BRIDGERTON.

Sam ThomsonSam est un monteur de cinéma et d’animation basé à Toronto qui cumule plus de dix ans d’expérience en montage de fiction. Il a travaillé sur SORT OF, sur les séries primées SAVE ME, FOR THE RECORD, CORNER GAS : LA SÉRIE ANIMÉE de même que les épisodes spéciaux animés de BLACK-ISH et de ONE DAY AT A TIME. Sam est un fier membre de la Guilde canadienne des réalisateurs, de l’Académie canadienne du cinéma et de la télévision et des Monteurs et monteuses de cinéma canadien.

Salles de discussion — Jour 1

Breakout_Day1_Rose_HontiverosUn esprit vif, des compétences techniques solides et une bonne connaissance des raccourcis, ce ne sont là que quelques-unes des qualités requises pour exceller en tant qu’assistant·e-monteur·euse. Joignez-vous aux assistantes-monteuses derrière COMPANY TOWN, BIG BROTHER CANADA, SCARBOROUGH et THE PORTER pour poser vos questions, trouver des réponses et passer un bon moment.

Array Crew logoCréé par la cinéaste Ava DuVernay et mené par une équipe de direction entièrement féminine, le site ARRAY Crew est une base de données de professionnel·le·s qui veille à ce que les dirigeant·e·s de studios, les chef·fe·s de département et les producteur·trice·s aient accès à un vaste bassin de personnes qualifiées issues de communautés sous-représentées, tant des femmes que des personnes de couleur, pour composer leurs équipes techniques en télévision et en cinéma. ARRAY Crew est partenaire de tous les grands studios d’Hollywood et de toutes les plateformes de diffusion en ligne et offre depuis peu ses services au Canada. Joignez-vous à Meredith Shea, directrice des relations avec l’industrie, pour une conversation exclusive entre des membres d’équipes de montage et des dirigeant·e·s de studios.

Breakout_Day1_SteeleAdobeRacontez des histoires plus riches et créez une atmosphère spéciale en vous servant de puissants outils d’effets et de correction colorimétrique dans Adobe Premiere Pro. En compagnie de la monteuse, réalisatrice et productrice Christine Steele, explorez des techniques qui donneront à vos vidéos un aspect cinématographique. Découvrez comment le montage vidéo peut bouleverser et accrocher le spectateur.

Au cours de cette séance, vous apprendrez à :

  • Identifier les particularités intéressantes de vos images afin de pouvoir les mettre en valeur;
  • Jouer avec les techniques d’étalonnage, de lumière et de mouvement pour créer une ambiance ou capter l’attention du spectateur;
  • Ajouter une ponctuation visuelle pour guider ou influencer la perception du spectateur.

Breakout_Day1_TarnowskiRejoignez le monteur aguerri du film LES OISEAUX IVRES : il vous parlera de son dernier film, il répondra à vos questions et parlera de tout ce qui touche au montage. La vaste expérience d’Arthur s’étale sur plus de trois décennies et comprend tant du documentaire que de la fiction en tous genres, de la télévision, des courts métrages et des bandes annonces. Ne ratez pas cette occasion d’en apprendre davantage avec un maître de notre art. Cette discussion se fera en anglais mais les questions en français sont bienvenues et encouragées.

Breakout_Day1_WeiszPréparez vos questions et installez-vous confortablement pour assister à une conversation passionnante avec le monteur expert qui nous a donné NIGHT RAIDERS. La passion de Jorge pour le cinéma nourrit son savoir infini et sa solide expertise sur l’art de la mise en récit. Son travail prolifique en longs métrages au cours des onze dernières années a remporté succès après succès dans les festivals internationaux. Cette conversation est un must pour ceux et celles qui s’intéressent au montage de longs métrages de fiction.

Breakout_Day1_Buium_SzembergNe ratez pas ce moment de qualité avec le duo dynamique derrière ALL MY PUNY SORROWS. Michelle et Orlee vont répondre à toutes vos questions à propos de leur collaboration sur ce film primé, leur deuxième projet en tant que co-monteuses. À deux, ces femmes cumulent plus de trente ans d’expérience en postproduction : que ce soit comme assistante-monteuse ou monteuse, elles connaissent tous les rouages de l’industrie. Une conversation à ne pas manquer!

Breakout_Day1_Thomson_MajeedJoignez-vous aux deux monteurs de SORT OF : Omar et Sam répondront à toutes vos questions, requêtes et curiosités! Ces grands esprits partagent une vaste expérience en montage télévisuel, documentaire, d’animation et bien plus encore. Vous pourrez tout savoir lors de cette conversation intime portant sur leur montage d’une série profondément innovante.

Omar Majeed et Sam Thomson ne seront disponible que pour la 1ère séance. Il n'y aura pas de 2e séance.

Breakout_Day1_WilliamsonAppréciez ce moment passé en compagnie du talent incroyable derrière le film à succès SCARBOROUGH, un film que Rich a non seulement monté mais aussi coréalisé. Rich a une profonde compréhension du cinéma documentaire et du court métrage. Son dernier film marque ses débuts en montage de fiction. Plongez, posez vos questions et découvrez le procédé unique qui a mené à l’aboutissement de cet excellent film.

JOUR 2

« J'avais besoin de quelqu'un qui me fasse repousser mes propres limites. »
Brina Romanek (Mentee) Mentorship program 2020 CCE
Brina Romanek
Monteuse, A CURE FOR THE COMMON CLASSROOM

Apprendre avec les plus grand·e·s

Les monteur·euse·s de documentaires sont en perpétuel apprentissage. Les outils ainsi que les conceptions de la mise en récit sont en constante évolution. Dans tous les médiums, le mentorat est depuis longtemps au cœur du développement des nouveaux talents, et le genre du documentaire ne fait pas exception. Il peut être difficile pour la nouvelle génération de monteur·euse·s d’avoir accès à la salle de montage pour s’asseoir, regarder, écouter et apprendre l’art intangible du montage. Venez entendre deux apprenti·e·s interviewer leurs mentor·e·s sur la façon dont ils·elles approchent la mise en récit et sur l’importance de passer le flambeau à la génération suivante.

Chris Mutton, CCEChris est un monteur de cinéma et de télévision basé à Toronto. Quatre des films qu’il a montés ont été lancés en grande première au TIFF : EASY LAND, PORCUPINE LAKE, CLEO et SILAS. Le film LUBA a remporté le prix du public au Canadian Film Fest et a permis à Chris de décrocher une nomination aux prix CCE. Pour Hulu, Chris a travaillé sur les quatre saisons de la série HOLLY HOBBIE, nommée aux prix Emmy et récompensée aux prix Écrans canadiens. Il a monté la comédie THE COMMUNIST’S DAUGHTER pour CBC Gem et il a collaboré à la série documentaire musicale ON THE RECORD.

Michèle Hozer, CCEMichèle Hozer travaille comme réalisatrice et comme monteuse depuis 1987 et elle a obtenu deux nominations sur la courte liste des Oscars et de nombreux prix. PROMISE TO THE DEAD lui a valu sa première nomination aux prix Emmy et ses débuts en tant que co-réalisatrice, GENIUS WITHIN : THE INNER LIFE OF GLENN GOULD, a figuré sur la courte liste aux Oscars. En 2015, Michèle a complété LA VÉRITÉ SUR LE SUCRE qui a remporté le prix Donald Brittain aux prix Écrans canadiens. Aujourd’hui, Michèle s’est lancée dans de nouvelles aventures dans le comté de Prince Edward en tant que lectrice-analyste de scénarios sur de nombreux projets, notamment un long métrage documentaire sur Buffy Sainte Marie.

Michèle Hozer, CCE Ricardo travaille dans l’industrie du cinéma depuis plus de 25 ans. Il a remporté un prix Emmy et il a été maintes fois nommé aux prix Génie, Gemini, CCE et Écrans canadiens. Ricardo est arrivé au Canada en 1993 après avoir quitté son Cuba natal où il avait étudié et travaillé au réputé Institut cubain des arts et de l’industrie cinématographiques à La Havane. Son travail remarquable et sa grande sensibilité pour la condition humaine ont contribué au succès de nombreux films qui ont reçu prix et nominations. Il a notamment travaillé sur 15 TO LIFE, MARMATO, LE SILENCE DES AUTRES et HERMAN’S HOUSE.

Brina RomanekBrina Romanek est une réalisatrice et monteuse de films documentaires. Elle a travaillé comme réalisatrice pour True Calling Media, RogersTV et CBC Short Docs. Comme monteuse, Brina a contribué à des films qui ont été diffusés sur Zoomer Media, Crave TV, The Travel Channel, TVO et CBC. Plus récemment, Brina a eu l’honneur de collaborer avec l’équipe de Cream Productions pour créer la série documentaire d’horreur en deux parties, BATHSHEBA. Brina est aussi la monteuse audio attitrée du balado Indigenous Climate Action.

Jordan KawaiJordan Kawai est un monteur de films documentaires basé à Toronto. Il a monté tant des courts métrages (BOAT PEOPLE) que des longs métrages documentaires (STAGE : THE CULINARY INTERNSHIP pour CHANNEL et BANGLA SURF GIRLS) de même qu’une installation vidéo (NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND). Jordan détient une maîtrise en Documentary Media Studies de l’université Ryerson et il a participé au programme de mentorat des Rencontres internationales du documentaire de Montréal. Son travail cinématographique personnel explore les traditions familiales et les récits d’internement des Nippo-Canadiens.

« Il existe des biais culturels dont je dois prendre conscience, pour éviter d'arriver comme un bulldozer dans un projet. Je m'assure que tous les enjeux des personnages du film sont clairs, afin qu'ils se révèlent être aussi proches de la réalité et qu'on puisse s'identifier à eux. »
Nathan Orloff
Nathan Orloff
Monteur, GHOSTBUSTERS: AFTERLIFE

Monter pour le grand écran

Que ça nous plaise ou non, le visage du cinéma change rapidement. Une quantité inouïe de films se trouve à portée de clic et il devient de plus en plus difficile d’attirer le public en salles. Mais les gens se ruent toujours au cinéma pour voir les valeurs sûres que nous connaissons et aimons tous et toutes. Rejoignez-nous en coulisses pour une discussion avec les monteur·euse·s de SHANG-CHI ET LA LÉGENDE DES DIX ANNEAUX, LES ÉTERNELS et SOS FANTÔMES : L’AU-DELÀ. Ils et elles nous parleront de leurs méthodes de travail, nous donneront leurs trucs infaillibles pour gérer leurs grandes équipes et les effets spéciaux, nous plongeant ainsi au cœur même du montage pour le grand écran.

Sarah TaylorSarah Taylor est une monteuse maintes fois primée, cumulant plus de dix-neuf années d’expérience. Elle a monté un large éventail de documentaires, d’émissions de télé et de courts et longs métrages. Sarah s’efforce de donner forme à des histoires uniques portées par des voix peu entendues. Son travail a été vu dans des festivals partout à travers le monde, incluant Sundance. Elle est membre de la Guilde canadienne des réalisateurs (GCR), du conseil d’administration du CCE et elle anime le balado anglophone du CCE, The Editor’s Cut.

Elísabet Ronaldsdóttir, ACEElísabet Ronaldsdóttir est née et a grandi à Reykjavik, en Islande. Elle a monté plus de 40 longs métrages, émissions de télévision et documentaires, de même qu’un long métrage d’animation. Elle est particulièrement reconnue pour ses collaborations avec le réalisateur David Leitch sur JOHN WICK, BLONDE ATOMIQUE, DEADPOOL 2 et le film à paraître BULLET TRAIN. Elle a récemment travaillé avec le réalisateur Destin Daniel Cretton sur le film Marvel SHANG-CHI ET LA LÉGENDE DES DIX ANNEAUX.

Nathan OrloffNathan Orloff est un monteur de cinéma américain, diplômé de l’université Chapman. Orloff a grandi à Seattle et il a débuté sa carrière en travaillant pour JJ Abrams, chez BAD ROBOT Productions. C’est là qu’il a pu participer en tant qu’assistant-monteur à 10 CLOVERFIELD LANE et en tant que superviseur à l'intermédiaire numérique sur STAR WARS : LE RÉVEIL DE LA FORCE. Depuis sa percée, Orloff est devenu un collaborateur régulier du réalisateur Jason Reitman, travaillant étroitement avec lui sur TULLY et CANDIDAT FAVORI. Plus récemment, Orloff a travaillé sur PLAN B et sur SOS Fantômes : L’au-delà.

Harry Yoon, ACEHarry Yoon est un monteur coréen-américain basé à Los Angeles. Yoon a travaillé entre autres sur SHANG-CHI ET LA LÉGENDE DES DIX ANNEAUX, MINARI, EUPHORIA, SALLE DE NOUVELLES, DRUNKTOWN’S FINEST, HALF-LIFE, DETROIT, THE BEST OF ENEMIES et LE DERNIER HOMME NOIR DE SAN FRANCISCO. Yoon a aussi travaillé comme monteur d’effets spéciaux et assistant-monteur sur OPÉRATION AVANT L’AUBE, LE REVENANT, HUNGER GAMES : LE FILM, FOOTLOOSE, LES DÉTRAQUÉS et LES SEIGNEURS DE DOGTOWN.

Dylan Tichenor, ACEDylan Tichenor, ACE, a débuté en montage en tant qu’assistant sur des films de Robert Altman tels que LE MENEUR, CHASSÉS-CROISÉS, PRÊT-À-PORTER, KANSAS CITY, et en tant que co-monteur sur le documentaire JAZZ ‘34. Comme monteur, il a travaillé sur NUITS ENDIABLÉES, MAGNOLIA, IL Y AURA DU SANG, L’INDESTRUCTIBLE, LA FAMILLE TENENBAUM, SOUVENIRS DE BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, L’ASSASSINAT DE JESSE JAMES PAR LE TRAÎTRE ROBERT FORD, DOUTE, ÇA ROULE, THE TOWN, SANS LOI et OPÉRATION AVANT L’AUBE. Parmi ses plus récents projets, on compte LE FIL CACHÉ, AFFAMÉS et LES ÉTERNELS.

Nat Sanders, ACENat Sanders, ACE, a monté de nombreux films reconnus tels que MOONLIGHT : L’HISTOIRE D’UNE VIE, STATES OF GRACE (SHORT TERM 12) et SI BEALE STREET POUVAIT PARLER. Deux fois il a remporté l’Independent Spirit Award et il a été nommé aux Oscars pour son travail sur MOONLIGHT : L’HISTOIRE D’UNE VIE. SHANG-CHI ET LA LÉGENDE DES DIX ANNEAUX est sa quatrième collaboration avec le scénariste et réalisateur Destin Daniel Cretton, après son travail sur LA VOIE DE LA JUSTICE, LE CH TEAU DE VERRE et STATES OF GRACE (SHORT TERM 12). Nat a aussi travaillé sur MEDICINE FOR MELANCHOLY, MA MEILLEURE AMIE, SA SŒUR ET MOI, HUMPDAY, GIRLS et ENTRE NOUS.

Salles de discussion — Jour 2

Breakout_Day2_WapikoniLes histoires sont puissantes : elles transmettent des enseignements et elles sont les dépositaires de la langue et de la culture d’une communauté. Elles sont aussi le lien entre le passé et le présent, entre le présent et l’avenir. Tania Choueiri et Elie-John Joseph, de Wapikoni, nous parleront de souveraineté narrative et de son importance quand vient le temps de raconter les réalités autochtones.

Veuillez noter que la première séance avec Wapikoni sera présentée en FRANÇAIS seulement.

Breakout_Day2_Cioni_AdobeFrame.io Camera to Cloud (C2C) permet le transfert instantané des images du plateau de tournage à la salle de montage. Il s’agit d’une toute nouvelle façon de travailler qui permet à tous, des monteur·euse·s aux producteur·trice·s en passant par toute autre personne clé, de fournir des rétroactions constructives en temps réel lors de la production. Dans cette démo interactive, vous apprendrez comment C2C permet à la production de transmettre automatiquement les proxies, les rapports caméra et les rapports son, etc., et ce dès que le ou la réalisateur·trice lance son « Coupez ». Le jour où vous commencerez à utiliser C2C, vous vous demanderez comment vous avez pu travailler autrement jusque là.

Breakout_Day2_TichenorJoignez-vous au monteur deux fois nommé aux Oscars et qui est derrière le récent blockbuster de Marvel, LES ÉTERNELS. Avec une carrière qui s’étend sur plus de 25 ans, Dylan a vraiment touché à tout. Parmi les brillants films à son actif, on compte NUITS ENDIABLÉES, LA FAMILLE TENENBAUM, SOUVENIRS DE BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN et OPÉRATION AVANT L’AUBE. Posez-lui vos questions et apportez votre carnet, vous voudrez prendre des notes!

Breakout_Day2_RonaldsdottirPréparez-vous à une période de questions excitante avec l’une des monteuses de référence à Hollywood en matière de film d’action. Son travail de co-montage sur SHANG-CHI ET LA LÉGENDE DES DIX ANNEAUX est le plus récent d’une longue liste incluant JOHN WICK, BLONDE ATOMIQUE et DEADPOOL 2, pour ne nommer que ceux-là! Si vous carburez à l’action, vous ne voudrez pas manquer ça.

Breakout_Day2_YoonSortez vos meilleures questions et ne manquez pas cette séance extraordinaire avec l’un des co-monteurs de SHANG-CHI ET LA LÉGENDE DES DIX ANNEAUX. Le succès fracassant de ce film est dû en partie à la solide expérience qu’Harry a acquise en montant des drames comme DETROIT, EUPHORIA et MINARI, qui a été nommé aux Oscars. Profitez au maximum de tout ce que ce rare talent a à offrir!

Harry Yoon ne sera disponible que pour la 1ère séance. Il n'y aura pas de 2e séance.

Breakout_Day2_Hozer_RomanekAsseyez-vous avec ce duo mentore/mentorée pour tout savoir sur la relation de mentorat. Apprenez-en davantage sur leur façon de travailler et leur co-montage de A CURE FOR THE COMMON CLASSROOM, sur l’importance du mentorat et bien plus.

Breakout_Day2_Acosta_KawaiFaites rouler vos méninges et n’oubliez pas vos questions pour cette paire mentor/mentoré. Ils dévoileront comment leur relation de mentorat a évolué, comment BETRAYAL est né et tout ce qu’il faut savoir sur le mentorat.

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Remerciements à nos comités et bénévoles :

Comité des l'EditCon CCE

Rick Bartram

Xi Feng

Stephen Philipson, CCE

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Pauline Decroix

Jennifer Kidson

Jane MacRae

Stephen Philipson, CCE

Sarah Taylor

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Kathryn Dickson

Jonathan Dowler

Jason Konoza

Isabelle Malenfant, CCE

Greg Ng

Janet Savill

Adam van Boxmeer

Merci à toute l’équipe du CCE :

Responsable des opérations du CCE :

Alison Dowler

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Andreia Furtado

À propos de l’EditCon

le 5-6 mars, 2022

en ligne

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Événements passés

Être monteur·euse au Canada

Être monteur·euse au Canada
2 novembre 2021

Cet événement a eu lieu le 2 novembre 2021

Presented in English / Conférence en anglais

Une conversation avec des monteur·euse·s de partout au Canada. Joignez-vous à nous le 2 novembre alors que nous allons inviter des monteur·euse·s de partout au pays pour discuter de leur travail et de comment il peut être différent (ou semblable) en fonction de leurs régions. Nos invité·e·s seront de tous les horizons, de tous les domaines et de tous les genres de l’univers du montage.

Parmi les invité·e·s, il y aura Roderick Deogrades, CCE (CHAPELWAITE), de l’Ontario, Annie Ilkow, CCE (GHOSTS), du Québec, Jeremy Harty, CCE (TRAILER PARK BOYS), de la Nouvelle-Écosse, Lisa Binkley, CCE (ZOMBIES 3), de la Colombie-Britannique et Sarah Taylor (THE LAST BARON), de l’Alberta.

Annie Ilkow is a Montreal-based editor whose recent work includes Ghosts (CBS, single-camera comedy), TRANSPLANT (2 seasons, for NBC/CTV), and BLOOD & TREASURE (2 seasons, CBS action-adventure). She also edited the critically-acclaimed drama 19-2, the seminal DURHAM COUNTY. A graduate of the film program at Concordia University, she earned her MFA in Cinema at the University of East Anglia, UK. 

Born in BC, Raised in NS, calls Halifax home since 1998. Met Mike Clattenburg and edited his low budget feature TRAILER PARK BOYS in 1999. Since then has been doing anything TRAILER PARK BOYS related. Started editing things with Cory Bowles whenever our schedules allowed. Married with three kids and owns and operates Digiboyz Inc. (Post Production) since 2001.

lisa binkleyAward winning film and television editor Lisa Binkley began her career in post-production after having studied theatre and film production at U.B.C. She graduated from the Media Resources Program at Capilano University. Since then she has worked on numerous feature films, MOWs and television series.

Her work was recognized when she received a Gemini Award (CSA) for her editing of the mini-series, HUMAN CARGO. This Canadian/South African co-production was directed by Brad Turner (HOMELAND & 24) and it received 17 Gemini Nominations and also won a Peabody Award.

Her work on MGM’s critically acclaimed science fiction series, THE OUTER LIMITS and Showtime’s, THE L WORD (Written and produced by by Ilene Chaiken) has given Lisa the opportunity to work with such directors as Marlee Gorris (Academy Award Winner – ANTONIA’S LINE), Moises Kaufman (THE LARAMIE PROJECT), Helen Shaver (VIKINGS), Lynne Stopkewich (KISSED), and Kimberley Peirce (BOYS DON’T CRY).

She is currently working on ZOMBIES 3 for Disney+, directed by Paul Hoen.

Lisa is a full member of IATSE 891, ACFC West and is a voting member of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.  In 2008, she was inducted as a full member into the Canadian Cinema Editors (CCE) honourary society.

Roderick is an award-winning Picture and Sound Editor who has worked in the film industry for over twenty years. His extensive knowledge of both sides of the post equation has proven invaluable. His experience in feature films, TV series, shorts and documentaries has established him as one of the industry’s most sought-after collaborators. On the picture side, he is known for his work on STILL MINE (2012), VICTORIA DAY (2009) and ONE WEEK (2008). For television, he has edited THE EXPANSE (Season 3 to 6), KILLJOYS (Season 4 & 5), and Chapelwaite (2021). He picture edited acclaimed documentaries such as 100 FILMS & A FUNERAL (2007), THE GHOSTS IN OUR MACHINE (2013), DAVID & ME (2014) and SILAS (2017). His sound editing work includes SPLICE (2009), PASSCHENDAELE (2008) and SILENT HILL (2006). He is currently picture editing the series BILLY THE KID.

Sarah Taylor is an award-winning editor with over eighteen years of experience. She has a passion for storytelling and has cut a wide range of documentaries, corporate videos, television programs, and full length feature films. Her work has been seen in festivals around the world including Sundance. She is a member of the Directors Guild of Canada (DGC) and is the host of the CCE podcast The Editor's Cut.

À propos de l'événement

November 2, 2021

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Congratulations: 2021 Rosie Awards Winner

Prix Rosie 2021

Félicitations à notre lauréate aux prix Rosie !

Jesse Jams
BEST EDITOR (UNSCRIPTED UNDER 30 MINUTES)

Sarah Taylor

Jesse Jams

Trevor Anderson Films

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The Editors Cut

Episode 047: In Conversation with Nena Erb, ACE

The Editors Cut - Episode 047 - In Conversation with Nena Erb, ACE

Episode 47: In Conversation with Nena Erb, ACE

This episode is the online master series that took place on August 25th, 2020. In Conversation with Nena Erb, ACE.

This episode is sponsored by Annex Pro/AVID

The Editors Cut - Episode 047 - In Conversation with Nena Erb, ACE

We discuss Nena’s television career which started as a PA in the art department of MADtv and has progressed to being an Emmy winning editor on HBO’s documentary series Project Greenlight and Insecure. She has also worked on Crazy Ex Girlfriend and the Apple series Little America. We talked about her work on Insecure which landed her an Emmy win in 2020 and most recently an Eddie award nomination.

This master class was moderated by Sarah Taylor.

Écoutez maintenant

The Editor?s Cut – Episode 047 – Interview with Nena Erb, ACE

 

Nena Erb:

I have a really weird method of cutting. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Oh, tell us, tell us! 

Sarah Taylor:

Hello, and welcome to The Editor’s Cut. I’m your host, Sarah Taylor. We would like to point out the lands on which we have created this podcast, and that many of you may be listening to us from, are part of ancestral territory. It is important for all of us to deeply acknowledge that we are on ancestral territory that has long served as a place where indigenous peoples have lived, met, and interacted. We honor, respect, and recognize these nations that have never relinquished their rights or sovereign authority over the lands and waters on which we stand today. We encourage you to reflect on the history of the land, the rich culture, the many contributions, and the concerns that impact indigenous individuals and communities. Land acknowledgements are the start to a deeper action.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Today’s episode is the online master series that took place on August 25th, 2020 in conversation with Nena Erb ACE. We discussed her television career, which started as a PA in the art department of Mad TV and has progressed to being an Emmy-winning editor on HBO’s documentary series, Project Greenlight and Insecure. She’s also worked on Crazy Ex-girlfriend and the Apple series, Little America. We’ll talk about her work on Insecure, which landed her an Emmy win in 2020 and most recently, and Eddie award nomination. This event was moderated by me. 

 

This podcast contains language and content that some may find disturbing or offensive. Listener discretion is advised. 

 

[show open]

 

Sarah Taylor:

Welcome Nena Erb ACE. We’ve got to add the ACE. It’s very exciting. 

 

Nena Erb:

I don’t know, CCE sounds kind of interesting too.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Well you’d have to move to Canada, but that’s okay. You can have both. Thanks so much for joining us today. We do have lots to cover. We have some clips to show, lots of questions to ask. But first I’m going to give a little bit of a bio on Nena. She is an Emmy winning editor based in Los Angeles. She has edited projects for HBO, Apple, Universal, Killer Films, and many others. In 2016, she received an Emmy award for her work on HBO documentary series, Project Greenlight. In addition, she has received two ACE Eddie nominations for her work on season three of HBO’s comedy drama series Insecure, which is what we’re going to talk about today. Well, season four.

And the other would be for CW’s acclaimed, a series Crazy Ex-girlfriend. Nena’s received her second Emmy nomination in 2020 for her work on season four of Insecure, which I was really excited that I had got to know Nena through back and forth about doing this event. Then I saw that she was nominated for an Emmy and I got really excited, and I was like, I emailed her in the middle of the night, “Congratulations.” So congratulations to you.

 

Nena Erb:

Thank you so much, and thank you for having me. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yes. I’m so glad that you could Join us today. So to get things going, tell us where you’re from and how you ended up in this world of film, television, and specifically editing?

 

Nena Erb:

Well, I’m originally from Taiwan, Taipei, Taiwan but we pretty much grew up in South L.A. and I’ve been there ever since. I didn’t go to film school. I went to art school and ended up being a PA in the art department on Mad TV and did that for a while and bounced around production. Nothing felt the right fit, so I just kept trying different things. It wasn’t until I was working as an associate producer that I really understood what editing was about, because the editor I was working with he completely opened my eyes and then showed me how you can shape characters and change the tone, and how much control you have over the story. 

Of course after that, I was like, I was hooked. There was no turning back. So I learned the software and he was kind enough to hire me as his assistant, and here I am many, many years later. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

What was one of the first jobs you had that made you be like, “I am an editor now. This is it. I’m a real editor.”?

 

Nena Erb:

Gosh, it’s so hard to say because honestly there are days when I’m not sure that I’m an editor on a show for the first time, whether it’s a pilot or if I’m in a first season show or even my first season on Insecure, which is last season, I wanted to make sure that I did a really good job. When you’re new, you want to make sure you fit in. You want to make sure you’re getting the tone right, the pacing right, the look right. All of it has to be … You have to blend in seamlessly with the team and your work has to be seamless. 

And so yeah, whatever I’m in those environments, I don’t feel I’ve made it until the first screening, and until I know that the producers are happy. Then it’s like, okay, I’m okay. I’m good. I can keep editing.

 

Sarah Taylor:

I feel that’s a really common thing that happens is like, because every project has a whole … Because everything’s different. You have different people to work with, different stories to tell, and then once you get the ball rolling, you’re like, “Wait a minute, I got this. It’s okay. I know what I’m doing. This is great.” First I want to ask, because you started doing more work in unscripted, is that right? And then moved to scripted. How did that process work from being an assistant or an editor in the unscripted world and then making that jump to be in scripted? Because I feel a lot of people will want to make those transitions, and so how did yours work?

 

Nena Erb:

Well it took a long time, easily a span of like 10 years. What happened was I had started in non-fiction and there’s a show called Curb Your Enthusiasm that came around, they were looking for an assistant. I thought this is the perfect chance for me to get into scripted television. I interviewed. Didn’t get the job.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Darn it.

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

I was like, “I didn’t see that one. That was exciting.” Anyway …

 

Nena Erb:

Didn’t get that job at all. But the interesting thing is I befriended the editor. His name is Steve Rasch ACE, and I became friends with the associate producer whose name was Megan Murphy. And we just kept in touch, and at one point in the season they needed some extra help for a short, very short term. I went in there and helped him out, and that kind of took my friendship with them to a different direction. Steve became my mentor, Megan became a really good friend and a champion. After that I think Curb wrapped, she took a job on a reality show, and I happened to be on that show.

I didn’t know that she was … I knew that she worked there, but I didn’t know she was keeping an eye on my work. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Oh wow.

 

Nena Erb:

She was just secretly watching my cuts and evaluating me, I guess. After that she had a show that also included improv comedy, and she knew that I could handle copious amounts of dailies with different lines and the camera everywhere else, so she brought me on and that was my very first scripted credit. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

What was that show? 

 

Nena Erb:

Lovespring International. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Then have you worked with her since then? Have you kept that relationship going through the years? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah, definitely. She’s hired me to do music editing for one of Jeff Berlin’s movies. Then later on she hired me to do some editing for one of his movies as well. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

That’s awesome. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

I think that’s something to be said about our industry too, is that you make those connections with people and you become their friends or you just you’re friendly with people and they want to work with you because they like you right? And they want to keep bringing you back because they want to spend time with you and you do good at your work and all that stuff so, something to be said about making sure we keep our relationships good with people in the world in the industry. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah, definitely.

 

Sarah Taylor:

So, I?m curious as every editor I think has slightly different processes on how they handle dailies, and when they get to look at scripts, or how they look at the notes and all that kind of stuff. Do you get to have a look at the scripts before you start? Do you have any input in scripts, or the scripts before you get to start post? It’s probably different in TV because it’s a pretty fast turn around and the writer’s room is happening now for Insecure, but you’re not part of that. So yeah. What is your process with that? Do you get to be part of the table read, like that kind of thing? Then what happens once you get in the edit suite and you start cutting?

 

Nena Erb:

Typically I’m usually getting the scripts a day or two before the table read. Unless it’s something really, really glaring, we don’t really chime in about the scripts. There’s a whole team of people that get paid to do that, so I’m just happy to read it and show up with a table read, show up at their tone meetings, and then once the dailies come in, what I’ll do is I’ll watch everything including just the nothingness in between resets, because I’ve found reaction shots that have bailed me out many times in those moments. I watch it from the first frame to the last frame. As I’m watching it, I’m cutting it in my head too. And of course, if I love a performance, I’ll just make a note of that or I’ll put a locator on it. After that I start cutting. I have a really weird method of cutting. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Ooh tell us, tell us.

 

Nena Erb:

I like to do multiple versions of every scene. Because sometimes there might be two or three performances of a certain line that I like, so I’ll have different versions with different performances, different ways to get into the scene, out of a scene. My first pass is not perfect. I’m just trying to put it all together, put the bones together and then I’ll move on. The next morning while my assistant’s prepping dailies, I’ll come in and I’ll watch all those different various scenes. And it always happens that there’s one version that’s going to jump out, or maybe parts of one version end up another. Once I pick those versions, then I clean it up and polish it and make sure it’s perfect. 

Usually by then dailies are ready for the next day and it all starts over again.

 

Sarah Taylor:

That’s a really great way of doing it, because then you have those fresh eyes on it in the morning time where you’re like, in the heavy of it during the afternoon or whatever the day before, and then you get those fresh eyes and yeah things do pop out right?

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Have you ever found that with doing that process where you have all these different variations of the same scene that you have been able to audition them for the director if they’re like, “Oh, something doesn’t feel right.” Do you bring those other versions up and say, “Oh, I tried it this way.” or is it just go away because you’ve already picked your favorite? 

 

Nena Erb:

Sometimes. Very rarely, but sometimes I’ll have two versions that are just like, I can’t pick. Either one works. If that’s the case, I’ll pick one that might reflect the script more, and just so … because I know that writers want to see their words on it, so it’s kind of important to present that. And then as you know when you’re cutting, there’s always things where like, “Hmm, that’s got a bull’s eye on it. I know that people are going to bump on that,” or those parts kind of like, “It’d be better if those lines are switched.” I have a log of all the scenes, and there’ll be a version of that. And if they’re in the room and they’re like, “I’m not so sure about this area right here.” I will say, “You know what? Let me show you this other version I was working on. And that’s when I show it to them. Yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

What’s your typical schedule for, like I say for Insecure?

 

Nena Erb:

Well, I usually start cutting the next day so I can stay up to camera and make sure that nothing is missing or that there’s no issues with the dailies. Then after the last two dailies, we have three days to finish our editors cut, typically like two days for editing, the last day’s reserved for music, because music is a huge thing and it takes a long time. After all the songs.

 

Sarah Taylor:

How is your relationship with your assistant? What stuff do you rely on them for in your process? 

 

Nena Erb:

Oh my gosh. My assistant is amazing. She’s my teammate. I bounce things off of her often and especially with music because sometimes you’re like, I love all three of these songs, but I know I can’t put three right there, so I’ll play them for her and she’ll usually help me narrow it down. And sometimes I’ll realize once we’re narrowing it down, like, “Oh wait, this song would actually work great in another scene or another episode.” I trust her opinion and I’m always … We have an open door policy. She cuts whatever she is drawn to. We work on it and yeah and once she cuts something, I’m very open to putting it in the episode and screening it with the producers and directors.

Sometimes I’ve been able to convince directors to let her jump in and get a little practice in to do notes. Because it’s easy for me and her to work because it’s very … we have a relationship, a friendship. I think when you’re on the hot seat with a director who’s breathing down your neck, it’s a whole different experience. It’s something that I think it’s important for them to go through, and so I’ve done that to her a few times and she’s done amazing all those times. So yeah, I definitely treat my assistant like a number of the team. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Have you used the same assistant for a long time, or is it depending on the show that you’re on?

 

Nena Erb:

I’ve been working with Lynarion for about three years going on four, I think. Prior to that I had an assistant for, I think one season, it was … I walked into a pre established show that had an assistant that they wanted me to use. Then prior to that, I had an assistant for about five years. I try to work with the same people.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Now when also comes to your process and stuff. Is there anything that you need to have in your edit suite or that is a must have shortcut or something that you do all the time that if you didn’t have, you’d be like, “I need that thing,”?

 

Nena Erb:

I mean there are so many things.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Well, tell us the things. I have many too. 

 

Nena Erb:

I like to have my tea there. I like to stand, I like to have my bench a certain way so that people aren’t behind me. I have it setup, so I’m able to talk to them face to face. It sounds really strange, but it works great. I highly recommend it. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Do you have a monitor behind you for them to screen …? How does that set up work? That sounds really good. I’m curious.

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. Pretend your desk right now is your [inaudible] right? And I’m the producer. I’m actually sitting this way, but I can talk to you and then he’d be right there. For them it’s like a living room area you know?

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, yeah.

 

Nena Erb:

For me, I can … Once I do something, I can poke my head out and talk to them about stuff. I just think that it’s better when they can see your face. But I just think that it’s … when you can see someone’s face when you’re working on notes and stuff, I feel you can establish a rapport quicker. Trust is built quicker too so …

 

Sarah Taylor:

And then can you watch them when they’re watching easier that way? Like you could see their reactions and be like, “Oh yeah, I was right. That’s not working.”?

Nena Erb:

Yeah. I try to watch them, but I don’t want to be like … You know? Because then they’ll feel very self-conscious. But I always like sneaking a little peak, and especially in areas where I’m not 100% sure that it’s working, so…

 

Sarah Taylor:

That’s a good technique, and you’re usually always cutting in AVID. Is that your main software? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yes definitely. Yep. I wanted to teach myself Premiere during COVID, but I kinda never got around to it.

 

Sarah Taylor:

There’s a lot of things that we have to sort through during COVID so I can understand that. Is there a project that’s been maybe stood out to you either because it was super challenging and then you had to overcome something to make it be whatever it ended up being, or it was like, “Hey, this works really good. It’s smooth sailing.”? I don’t know if that ever happens, but has there been one thing that’s really stood out to you? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah, yeah. It was last year, I worked on a series called Little America. It’s a series that I don’t think would have gotten made even five years ago. It’s a series about the immigrant experience. Each episode is completely different one could be comedy, another one could be drama, and so as an editor, it’s really nice to have all those different genres to stretch your creative muscle. For that, I mean that I loved just the ability to be able to jump between the two genres, and also I’m an immigrant and I never thought that I would be working on a show that’s about the immigrant experience, something that I’ve actually gone through and I can relate to. 

I love that the show runners, they didn’t want to paint them as stereotypes that you normally see, you know? So that was great. It was great to be able to humanize them and show them as normal people. It was?I think there’s a lot of criticism about the show because we didn’t involve politics, but I think that it was important for them not to do that, because it’s not about an agenda for us. It’s just about showing immigrants as normal human beings. Someone that might be related to you. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. I really enjoyed the series. I think if you did include the political side of it, then people who might not have watched it and then might have realized, wait a minute, that person is like me, or made it relatable. I, of course, watched year two shows episodes, which I loved. Do you want to talk a little bit about, was it called The Silence? That was the episode title, right? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

For people who haven’t seen it, it’s an episode where basically the whole thing takes place at a silent meditation retreat, so really there’s no dialogue. But Nena did a brilliant job, and it was funny, and there was … It was so good. I was laughing then I was crying. It was great. Anybody who hasn’t seen it yet, please go watch Little America, The Silent. And then the other one was called The Sun?

 

Nena Erb:

The Sun yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Which was heartbreaking, but also very good. How did that work for you, to cut almost … They were 30 minute episodes, right?

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

With really no dialogue. Did you add sound effects? Were you shaping the soundscape and all that stuff? Because man, it was good. There was lots of good moments. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. That’s probably the hardest thing I’ve ever edited so far. I’m sure there’s going to be harder things coming up. But up until now, that’s probably the hardest one, because there is no dialogue. Certain times the performance can be really subjective when there isn’t dialogue surrounding it, propping it up. The first cut came in a little along, it had a lot of different storylines, and watching it felt like you’re just watching a documentary. Not really sure who the main characters are, or who you’re supposed to be following, because you’re following multiple people. We slowly chipped away at it, chipped away at it. Because in the beginning there was a scene with dialogue that set up everything. 

Then in the middle there was a little more dialogue, and then there’s all the dialogue in the back. Through experimentation we got rid of all the dialogue in post, and we had to get rid of many, many different characters stories so that Sylviane’s can rise and you end up realizing, “Oh, I’m supposed to be following her. This is her journey as a seeker. She’s here, she’s looking for love, she’s looking to belong. That story finally bubbled up to the top after 50 some odd versions. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Wow. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah, it was … We did a lot of different versions. I think I did like 10 one night. It was ridiculous. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Wow. Well you wouldn’t tell by watching it. It looks great. I liked that there was no setup. Right? I feel like you guys … Yeah, you did a great job of … Everybody kind of has … Maybe not everybody, but there’s a vision of what a silent meditation looks and there’s like … You’re like, “Oh, okay. They’re not talking. Okay. Yup. That’s how it goes. Yep. This makes sense.”

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. Lynarion, my assistant, she did a phenomenal job with the sound design. She really did. It was so good that when we got to the stage, I think we had to go back to what she had a lot of times.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Nice. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. That was an interesting mixed day. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

You’re like, “Actually it was better before, sorry.”

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. They were great with it though. Cool, very, very understanding of it. They were able to still add their own little touches, but yeah, she knocked that out of the park. The sound design was so great. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. It was really good. Did you want to talk about The Sun and how that came together, that episode?

 

Nena Erb:

That one came together more traditionally I think. But of course, anything compared to The Silence and all those versions that we did seem easier. I wouldn’t say it was easy, but … But yeah, that one was … It was interesting for me because I didn’t want to demonize Syrians. It’s about a Syrian man who seeks asylum because his father discovered he was gay and is trying to kill him. It’s a heartbreaking story. At the same time it was very important to the director and to myself and producers to make sure that we didn’t shamed him into that, “Oh, you should be more accepting,” kind of a role. We tried to explain why these mercy killings or whatever they’re called are done in that culture. That was, I think, probably the most eyeopening experience for me to be able to really scrutinize all the different performances to make sure like, “Okay, this is emotional, but not too sappies.” Because you don’t want to like … anything too syrupy. 

When the guy’s explaining why the father is hunting him. And also we couldn’t be too angry either. Then now you’re demonizing the father and the whole culture, religious reasoning behind it. For the tone it was really tough to find the right balance, but I think we did okay. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. I think that’s such an important thing to talk about and that you have those discussions because it’s so easy and in a lot of media, it’s so easy for that to be … Well, you’re just, you’re the bad guy period. But he’s a whole human and there’s reasons why he believes a certain thing, and there’s culture, and there’s religion, and there’s … We all have good and evil. It’s good to have stories that where you see, well that’s really crappy, but also I can see where he’s coming from right?

 

Nena Erb:

Right.

 

Sarah Taylor:

I think we definitely, as editors can help shape those things. And yeah, you’re right. The fact that you took that time to really look at all the reactions or all of the takes and say to you know … To be thinking about that while you’re cutting, because that could be lost on … Other people might not, or if that’s not brought up in whatever you might miss it and then we’re telling a completely different story. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. Definitely.

 

Sarah Taylor:

It’s a reminder to all the editors out there that we do have a lot of control in the edit suite. We can really shape things to be impactful, I think right?

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, I think you did a fantastic job on that one. 

 

Nena Erb:

Oh thank you. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

So yes, everybody, please go watch Little America. It was a really great series. Highly recommend it. Apple TV. Well, speaking of things to watch, so Insecure. This was season four. Yes. We’re watching clips from season four. I’m a huge fan of Insecure, and when I was looking to see who we could bring on for the master series, I discovered that Nena had cut Insecure and I got very excited. I was like, “We must interview Nena.” Then I saw all of her other credits and I was like, yes, she’s got lots of good stuff. This is great. I’m a fan of, and familiar of your work and a fan of your work. We have a few clips to watch. Do you want to maybe set up the series and we’re going to watch self-care Sunday as the first clip, just so in case people haven’t seen it or…?

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. This is episode six. It’s basically the first few scenes of the episode. It comes after the block party episode where Issa and Molly, her best friend, they have the big blow out. Of course neither wants to apologize to the other, because they all feel like they’re right. Even though the block party was a huge success in this episode, Issa’s feeling a little empty, and she’s missing her friend. And so throughout the entire episode, she’s constantly checking to see if Molly’s called and Molly hasn’t. This is her kind of … We’re not going to show this part, but the episode’s all about her trying to prove that she’s not a selfish bitch. What we’re about to see is the aftermath of a fight that happened between her and her best friend.

 

[clip plays]

Bitch, do you hear yourself? Nobody has more drama than you, Issa. You still the same selfish bitch you always been. You need to figure out your shit and stop using people.

Last night was lit. 

When’s the next one? 

Where were those bomb tacos from? 

Thought that shit was going to be whack.

But that shit was tight. 

The most fun I had an Inglewood in a minute. 

I can’t believe Vince Staples was there.

We need more events like this. Even my grandma was out there dancing.

Tonight in the South L.A. niggas gathered for fried chicken, cocoa butter, and violence. But as always, you can count on Shannon on the scene.

Yo, just checking in on you. Don’t let that Molly fuckshit ruin how well you did today, you killed it Iss. By the way, did you invite mom, because she keep blowing my-

Hey, morning after update. It looks we are waiting on deposit returns from four vendors. But in the meantime, I did have a few questions about something that you was telling me that-

You okay girl. What was that last night? What happened with y’all. Okay this baby won’t stop crying. Why you reaching for my titty, ain’t nothing in there. Is that a Wheat Thin? That’s a Wheat Thin.

So what am I supposed to do now? 

That’s a good question. You fucked up.

I didn’t fuck up. She fucked up. 

And she got you fucked up.

Fucking right.

That’s what the fuck I’m saying. 

I should probably reach out though. 

Reach out? Have you noticed that you’re always the one reaching out and apologizing.

The fuck.

Yeah. Let her reach out to you. She’s wrong too. Effortless bars.

Okay. Yeah. But what do I do while I wait? 

Relax, relate, release. Take care of you. 

Self-care Sunday. 

I’m sorry, what? Speak up.

I said self-care Sunday. It’s when you take care of yourself on a Sunday. 

I know what that means. I read too. 

Okay. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

I love the mirror talks always. They’re my favorite scenes. Tell us about this scene and why you chose it to talk about.

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. I feel like every season there’s always an outlier episode. I had that in season three as well, and I feel this is very similar. There’s a lot of use of the graphics from social media, and the whole concept of the half of the screen being taken up by her brother, her assistant and social media stuff, the YouTube clip. It’s always taken up by somebody else but never Molly. It’s like the two halves and half of one’s gone. That was kind of the idea for me anyways. I wasn’t in the writers room so I don’t know what they had. But for me, cutting, I was always, I had that in mind. The amazing thing was we never discussed what any of the graphics would look, or whether it would be picture and picture or exactly 50/50 split. It went back and forth multiple times.

Knowing that that could be very, very challenging, the notes process and it could change a million times. I just decided, I made a decision, let’s just do half and half and Lynarion made all those graphics which are phenomenal.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah.

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. I think it presented well, and so there wasn’t a single note. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Nice. 

 

Nena Erb:

And all the graphics.  I had a lot of notes from the VFX team.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah.

 

Nena Erb:

[crosstalk 00:29:47] put that together, but yeah, I was relieved and amazed that Lynarion did such a great job with that, that we just sailed through. There’s a phone conversation that we’ll probably take a look at later, but that was also a continuation of … Originally it was supposed to be a split-screen conversation, and we tried it that way but it … I don’t know. I didn’t feel like we still needed to use a 50/50 visual language that we used earlier, because it comes from after she had her chat with her mom. So maybe she’s starting to feel whole, so I didn’t feel like we needed to split the screen. That was just a crazy, crazy concept that I ran with. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

I hear you. Well, it worked, and I think, yeah, it had lots of good, good … Well, there was lots of good things of what was on the other screen. The graphics or that YouTube lady. Like [laughs]. Do you want to touch on music for this series and why music is such a big part of the series, and what that process is like in the edit suite? 

 

Nena Erb:

Sure. Yeah. Music is a huge character. Issa’s a big fan of music. She’s always said that she wants a great show, but she wants the music to be dope. We’re always trying to use artists that are unreleased or about to release when the episode drops. It’s a whole timing thing that our music supervisor Kier Lehman has to deal with. He’s been able to find all these incredible artists that I had never heard before. So yeah. We have like thousands and thousands of songs to choose from. 

Sarah Taylor:

Wow.

 

Nena Erb:

It’s got to be West coast, it’s got to be the right vibe. It’s got to sound great. It’s got to have lyrics that fit the scene. There’s a lot of different boxes that we need to tick, and so that’s why it takes forever. But I feel like we’re doing okay with the choices that we’re making. Yeah. Issa always has ideas too, because maybe she’ll be driving into work and she’ll hear a song and she’ll say, “Oh, let’s try that there.”

 

Sarah Taylor:

One question that popped up in the thing was does she ever come to the edit suite and work with you?

 

Nena Erb:

Yes.

 

Sarah Taylor:

What is it like working with her? I think she’d be really fine but …

 

Nena Erb:

She’s great. She’s super smart. She’s able to look at herself and be very objective. I know that that can be really hard sometimes for producers who are also acting in the episodes, but she’s great. The first time I worked with her, I wasn’t sure what to expect. But, within minutes it felt I was hanging out with a friend criticizing what’s on TV. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

That’s awesome. Do think that growing up … Because when did you move to L.A.? You were a young child when you moved to L.A.?

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Do you think that growing up in L.A. is helped you work on the show because you are from L.A.? Do you feel that’s a benefit for you? 

 

Nena Erb:

I think so. I feel it has … South L.A. in particular that whole neighborhood that the show is based on, or based out of, was where we settled when my family and I immigrated here. So yeah. So that community has always been very, very special to me because it was our first experience in a whole new country. It could have gone south really bad but it didn’t, because like … It was incredible. Our neighbors embraced us and just helped us along. I had friends almost immediately.

 

Sarah Taylor:

That’s great. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah, so growing up in that area, it’s always been very special so … I love featuring South L.A. so…

 

Sarah Taylor:

I feel like that’s a really special part of the show, is that you have these really great drone shots and just street shots of the space, and it’s like a character in itself I feel like. And … So yeah, I was curious to know if there’s … what you felt there was that connection. Thinking back to when you were your young self, did you ever think that one day you’d be making a show based in that community? That must be pretty wild to think about. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah, definitely. I did not think that would happen and I made it a point not to say anything in my interview because I didn’t want that to be … I didn’t want that to sound fake because it’s not.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah for sure.

 

Nena Erb:

For sure, people have like, “Oh yeah, I love that city,” and stuff, like using it in the interview. But for me it was a very personal thing so I didn’t tell Issa until we were done with season three. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Oh, she must’ve felt … That must’ve been a special connection there-

 

Nena Erb:

Oh yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

… to talk about that yeah.

 

Nena Erb:

It’s so interesting because South L.A. changes. It’s always changing, constantly evolving. From season to season, we have to shoot new exterior’s. Things are just different. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Do you want to show the next clip? I guess it would be the phone call. 

 

Nena Erb:

This comes after an entire episode of her giving an older man a ride. He’s this prickly old man who’s making her life miserable, but she’s just trying to prove that she’s not a selfish bitch.

 

[clip plays]

Hey.

This is Kelli, may I ask who’s calling?

Kelli it’s Issa. You called me. 

I know I called your ass, but you’re ignoring me like you’re my biological father. Where you been? Are you okay? 

Yeah. I’m okay. I’ve just been busy. 

Okay. Well have you called Molly yet? 

Uh-uh (negative).

Why not? 

Because she hasn’t called me. 

So that’s it. That’s a wrap? Issa, come on. I know you’re upset right now, but maybe if y’all sat down and talk face to face, you could work it out. 

Are you giving Molly the same energy? 

Yes. I’ve been calling that bitch too. Look when me and Tiff let our shit sit too long, we almost didn’t come back from it. 

I just don’t want to be the one to reach out this time. 

Okay. So what? If she doesn’t call, y’all just never going to speak again. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

I really liked the pacing in that one, and them walking and stopping and …

 

Nena Erb:

Oh yeah, yeah. That was a very deliberate choice. I wanted to make it seem like they were going to potentially meet in the middle. As a symbolism of them coming to accord and she’s going to go call Molly. But they never do meet in the middle so … and she never calls Molly. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Nothing is solved.

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah.  I had a little fun cutting that once I didn?t like what it looked like as a split-screen. I tried that other concept of trying to make it seem like they’re mirroring each other as they’re getting closer and closer together only they really weren’t. I’m glad that in the end Issa likes this version better. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Yeah. I think it worked really well. When you’re in this show, because the framing is very … a specific style of framing for a lot of the shots and stuff. Are you at all ever helping with that process? Where like, if it’s in the suite you’re maybe punching in a little bit or shaping things differently to make sure it fits into that vibe I guess is … I don’t know?

 

Nena Erb:

No, no. I think that look was established since the pilot, and all of our DPs and our directors have honed in on it, and they’re very aware of when to shoot these short-sighted shots and when not to. Because we don’t use them a lot. We use them sparingly. There might be one potentially two in an episode, but not … It’s typically just one. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. But it’s still like, to me when I see it just … I’m like, “Oh yeah, that’s the style of the show.” It’s interesting, I’ve never actually thought to count how many shots are like that, but that there’s only one shot like that in an episode or maybe two that it still is something that I’m like, yeah. That’s part of the show. That’s fun.

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

What is it when you’re hiring an assistant? Is there certain types of skills that you expect from your assistants? 

 

Nena Erb:

I have to get along with them. That’s the most important one, and hopefully they want to be a teammate. I like assistance that want to cut, because I like having someone to bounce certain things off of. That only comes with someone who wants to be an editor, right? 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah.

 

Nena Erb:

Skills, they’re always evolving. Right? Because I feel like our digital media is constantly changing, so as long as they can do the normal things prep dailies, and maybe script sync scenes, that’s kind of it. Sound design is very important, but I feel like both of the assistants on Insecure this past season are Louis and Lynarion. However they have spoiled me because they’re both so good at everything. Like everything. The effects, temp effects, sound design. Like all of it. It’s going to be hard to replace Lynarion, it really will be. But she’s on her way to editing so I’m pretty excited for her. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

That’s awesome. You’ll have to get her to be like, who’s the next person like you come my way?

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. She’ll have to do the first round of interviews.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Have you ever had moments of creative differences with the director and had to stand your ground to get the approval for the cut that you knew was the right creative direction? 

 

Nena Erb:

No. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Oh, that’s good. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah.

 

Sarah Taylor:

You lucked out.

 

Nena Erb:

I pick my battles. I try to see it from their point of view, and I know that the director’s cut is a director’s vision and I try to make sure that I’m able to provide that for him or her. If it’s completely off the mark, I know it’s going to get changed. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. 

 

Nena Erb:

There’s no reason to get into it with them. There’s no reason. I just want to make sure that they’re comfortable and they are happy with what we’re turning in, and putting their names on. So, yeah, I don’t get into it. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

I think that’s the biggest difference between a film and television, is that the producers always have the final round. So, if something doesn’t make pass the producers, it doesn’t matter if you fought with the director about it, the producer is going to change it or vice versa, right? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Do you have any techniques or things that you’ve learnt over the years on how to deal with different personality types in the edit suite? Because every director coming in, every producer coming in, they’re all different. They all have their own quirks and stuff. So, how do you navigate it for yourself in the edit suite, and how do you communicate with all the different people? 

 

Nena Erb:

Well, if it’s a director I haven’t worked with before, I usually try to introduce myself either at the table read or at the tone meeting, make sure they have my contact information. I always … I offer this to every director. I always tell them …I go, “Hey, if you have a scene that you’re a little nervous about, that you’re not sure about, let me know. Shoot me an email, shoot me a text, whatever it is, and I’ll make sure that I cut that first the next day, so you can take a look at it and see if your concerns were valid, or if it was just something that you just weren’t sure, but now that you see it, it’s fine. I find that that really calms them down a lot, and it starts us off on a good foot. So, that’s typically what I do, and I always let them know like my job is to make sure their vision is realized, especially in TV. I think that means a lot to them because they don’t usually get that. 

With producers, it just comes from being in the room with them and trying to read their vibe, and understanding what their internal pacing is and what they respond to in terms of jokes or performances, and really observing them, I think. For a lot of editors, myself included, it can be a little frustrating after you’ve explored all the different avenues of what the scene could be from the dailies, and then they want to like dig into it and start from scratch because they haven’t seen all the things, but it occurred to me that they want to do that, not because they don’t trust me, but because they haven’t gone through all the different avenues that I have. I think of myself as a little tour guide at that point, and we always typically come back to the version that I had or some form of that, because I think once you get to know all the material, I mean, everyone kind of agrees on what’s working and what’s not, or at least I hope so, because you should be a good fit with your show runners. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

For sure, that helps. But that’s a good point of … I feel like maybe early on in careers or yeah, the more experience you have, the more you realize like, okay, no, I’m here as part of the team. Yeah, you do trust me, that I’m providing you with the cut that I think is right, but it’s okay for you to look at other scenes, or other takes. It doesn’t mean that I sucked at my whatever, right? I feel like it takes some time to realize that we can all … or we’re creating something together, right? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

And maybe, luckily … being fortunate to work with directors and producers that you can collaborate with, I think that’s a huge thing to get that confidence up for young editors or new editors, that they can work together to make the thing. 

 

Nena Erb:

Definitely. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

What are your current thoughts or ideas on what you think the future of post is, now that we’re living in a different world right now? What are your feelings on where things might go in L.A. and for you in the future? 

 

Nena Erb:

Everything is uncertain. I imagine we’ll be working from home a lot more with the potential going into an edit bay, if there’s a tough scene that the director or the producer wants to work with you on in person. There’s been shows that have a protocol in place where if that is to happen, they’ll have an edit bay set up. If you’re going to go in, you’re both going to get tested. It has to happen like a week from the time that you have to in or something. Then of course, you’re sitting far apart with the mask, but honestly, I’m happy to work from home, if it means that my family and I stay safe. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, yeah. But it’s pretty amazing how much you can do from home and how … even just Zoom, like right now. I have Zoom calls with my directors and stuff, and I was doing that before COVID, just because we were in different places. So, it is handy how our technology works. But do you feel like you’ll miss that face to face, or to have those conversations in person, or in the same room? 

 

Nena Erb:

Absolutely. Yeah. I think the rapport will be there, if you’re working with someone you’ve worked with before, but I think if you’re doing a new show with a new team, it might take a little longer for you to establish trust and get on the same page, I guess, with the other person. So, that’s going to be really interesting. I am curious to see how that’s going to go. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. As we all are. And every location is different, right? Every place that … yeah. I know more films are coming up to Canada to shoot because we have less numbers, but then it’s like, yeah, it’s just a wild. The new world. What are your thoughts about making the post-world more equitable, in light of the Black Lives Matter movement and all these other things coming to light. What are your thoughts on how we can make the post-world more equitable and how we can have a different looking people behind the computer shaping these stories, right? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. This is so interesting. I was just actually talking to Netflix about this.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Oh, good.

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. I had just a general meeting with them and someone asked me like what I thought of including apprentice editors again, and I thought that was a great idea because apprentice editors, it used to be a thing that they would have on films. Someone that comes in that’s the entry level assistant, the apprentice, and they would learn from the two … the first and second assistants and be involved in the environment without a lot of risk. I feel like they should bring that back. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Totally. Yeah. 

 

Nena Erb:

That would help a lot of people build credits and have a resume, so that they can be up for jobs and be considered, because I feel like you can have diversity programs all you want, but if they’re coming out without credits, I don’t know that they’re going to get a chance. You know? I mean, everybody’s always going to say, “Oh, well, here’s two candidates. This person has a lot more credits and you’ve got none.” I think if there are apprentices and they can have like a list of credits on projects, I think it’ll be a lot more helpful. It’s similar to the DGA training program. 

I don’t know if you guys saw that up in Canada, DGA, they pick I think two or three … I don’t remember how many people they pick, but they basically put them on a feature film for a month, put them on another one for a month, put another one for a month, and then they do TV shows. By the time they’re done, they have a tremendous resume and they know how all the different genres work and they can run the set on anything. So, I think if we can do that, I think that’ll make a big difference. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

That’ll be huge. I think that’s something that’s just missing for a long time now, that we have come to the digital world where we don’t need to be in this expensive cutting film. We’ve lost that, where we’re passing our knowledge down as much, right? Especially in our smaller industries, like within Canada. I hardly ever have an assistant, let alone am I able to help somebody as much as maybe somewhere like in L.A. where you can have assistants. Then if we can do this apprentice thing, so many doors I think would open for people, and I think it’s so important. 

And it’s just to share our craft so that people can learn, and they’re not flailing. People are flailing trying to figure it out on their own. They could learn from somebody who has great experience. So yeah, I think that would be fantastic. I know the DGC has trainee programs, but I don’t know … I don’t think I’ve ever seen it for editing. I don’t think it’s in the editing realm, but that would be fantastic. Do you have a story of your own authorship that you may want to tell one day? 

 

Nena Erb:

No. I don’t … 

 

Sarah Taylor:

You like to help others tell stories. That’s fair. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yes. I mean, honestly, I don’t think my life is that interesting. So, I’d rather tell other people’s stories. Yeah. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

That’s awesome. Keith asks … his question’s about the speed of editing. Do you or any of your assistants ever take time to pick up visibility? Is it something you allow your assistants some time to acquire, or do you expect it to be right away … how fast they edit? 

 

Nena Erb:

I don’t really expect my assistants to edit fast. I know that takes time. It took time for me. I think a large part of it comes with practice, but also the ability to really understand the material that you’re working with. If you know where all the bodies are buried, so to say, I think you can solve problems quicker, and I think that’s the perception of speed. When someone’s giving your note and you’re like, oh, right, okay. I can do this, this, this, and this. It’s because you’re accessing what you know, the tools that you have to work with. Because I feel like once you’re … a quick type of … I mean, it’s all the same, right? I think really, the speed comes from how quickly you’re able to solve a problem rather than the actual physical act of executing it. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

What advice would you have for a new learning film student who wants to become an editor? 

 

Nena Erb:

Oh, wow, there’s so many. Let’s see. Gosh. Well, American ACE. They have an internship program that is hugely valuable and it introduces you to all kinds of different genres, puts you in rooms. I mean, now everything’s virtual, but back when you can send someone to an edit bay, they would have you in a feature film room for a week. They would have you in an episodic TV room for a week. They would have you in a documentary reality room for a week, so you understand the workflow, and then they do a week in your mix house, your sound houses, your online facilities, so that you can understand, okay, all these things that you’re doing when you’re assisting, that’s where it goes and you understand why it has to be a certain way. So, I think it’s just such a great program that recent graduates should definitely apply. I don’t know if you guys have something similar. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

We have a mentorship program, yeah, and for the CCE that we just started this year … 2019, so last year, but going through this year, and we had a pilot project in Toronto. So, eventually we’re going to try to do it across Canada, but so, yeah, right now in Toronto it’s happening. Of course, it started pre COVID. So, we had all these things set up where people were getting to go into edit suite. So, they’re doing it virtually and stuff now, too, but it’s very similar. But more, they’ve been paired with an editor or an assistant that they’re … So, then they get to be mentored with that editor or assistant that they’re paired with. Yeah, we’re definitely trying to get that going more as a program, similar to what ACE is offering, because I think that’s huge. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. And also, I think the interesting thing is, with everybody being home because of COVID, you can reach out to people whose work you admire because chances are they’re hanging out. They might be open to just having a Zoom coffee with you. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. 

 

Nena Erb:

I think so much of this business is about relationships. I would just make it a point to reach out to someone new once a week or once a day, if you’re really ambitious, and yeah. Get to know a lot of people, establish and foster the friendships, and eventually they’ll become your network and they’re going to be able to help you move up, move around. So, all that, in addition to trying to cut as much as you can for practice, those are all things that I would suggest. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Awesome. Can you speak more about the interview process? How do you prepare and what’s the best piece of advice you would give to put your best foot forward in an interview? 

 

Nena Erb:

Well, I typically try to get the script, if it’s a new project or a pilot, and I’ll read it a couple of times. I always try to think, okay, for this scene … if I have questions, I write them down. If there’s something that I really connect with, I write it down. If I can think of music that would go great with the scene, I write that down. You want to come in with questions about the characters, the story. You want to bring something to it as well. So, maybe that’s a music thing, maybe it’s something else that you’re envisioning, or maybe you read the scene and you suddenly have a concept of how they can shoot it. That might be worth bringing up, just to spitball. But yeah, it’s really just doing your prep, and when it’s possible … because sometimes I’ll get a script and I’m meeting them in the … the meeting’s next morning, so I don’t have time to watch other programs or other movies that the producers have done before, because it helps to know some of their work, too. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Keith says he’s been teaching himself for the past six months and he’s been waiting to pick up freelance jobs to build his portfolio, and he wants to become assistant editor. So, he’s wondering how he should approach that. Is it more important to meet and make friends, which is kind of what you just said, with post-production people, or have a demo reel? Do you also have any good advice on how he can reach that goal of becoming an editor? 

 

Nena Erb:

Well, I don’t think you need a reel, if you want to be an assistant editor. I think it’s more important to meet people and connect with editors that you get along with, that will potentially need an assistant. That would be probably the quickest way to get a job as an assistant, but if you want to edit, then a reel is important because it helps to be able to show people what you’re capable of. And in terms of being an editor, I think for most people, they work their way up from being an assistant, so then it’s just finding an editor that will mentor you. And I would just try to do my job as best as possible, as fast as possible, so that I can cut something every day, you know? And I think sometimes, if your time allows and if your editor is cool with it, I would just try to cut something every day and then see at the end of the week, okay, how many minutes is that? Is it three minutes? Is it five minutes? And then if it’s five, the next week you aim to do seven- 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Oh, yeah. 

 

Nena Erb:

 … and the next week 10, you know? So, that’s how you build up your speed and how quickly you solve problems, right? Yeah, I think making sure that you can keep up is going to be really, really important on your first editing job, because you don’t want to not be able to deliver on that deadline. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

For sure. Yeah. And if you are in Canada … Keith, I don’t know if you’re in Canada … we, pre-COVID, had lots of gatherings with editors. We’d have pub nights and stuff like that, but we are … as you know like events like this … yes, so he’s in Canada. Yeah. So, events like this, you can connect and learn from editors. Then also, we have Edit Con every year in Canada, where it’s like a full day of chatting with editors. Again, this year it’s probably … it’s going to be online, but those moments, getting out and going to networking events where you’re just connecting with editors and talking edit … because we all get excited and we all want to talk about it … is huge. So, yes, keep up with the CCE and hopefully when we have in-person events again, you can make some of those in-person connections. Another question from Sabrina. She says, as an editor, do you feel having a reel or series of reels put together as important? Or do you only provide examples of your work upon request from specific productions? 

 

Nena Erb:

It’s funny. When I first got an agent, she said to do a reel. I never got around to it, but I said, “Hey, I don’t have time to cut a reel, but here’s what I can do. I can do a website, and I’ll just put certain scenes up,” and she’s like, “That’s fine.” So, that’s been that, and honestly, I don’t know how many people have looked at it, if at all, but I imagine that if I was starting out, I imagine people would want to see something. So, I think that would be a helpful thing to do. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

I feel like it’s more, now, examples of a piece of work or, yeah like a scene or something is really important because you … well, I can’t say anybody can put together a montage of the cool music track and a bunch of clips, but to get your story sense or your pacing sense or whatever, the actual pieces of work is important. Do you have any tips for people who want to make the move to Hollywood or to L.A., and try to get into that world? Because yes, I feel like it would be daunting, but what are your ideas on that? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah, I think it’s definitely possible. Absolutely. I would save money, a lot of money. because you want to make sure that you have a nice cushion, because there are times when you’re not working and it might be a month or two, and you don’t want to … It’s really stressful if you don’t have that financial cushion. So, I would plan and save as much as you can. I would … and as you’re saving, reach out to editors and assistants, depending on wherever you are level-wise in terms of your career. Reach out to people whose work, I guess, you admire or assistants who you know that have done really difficult V effects, movies. Whatever skill that you want and whatever job that you want, reach out to those people and try to make a connection. 

Again, when you’re meeting people, I would try to find out what they like as a person, rather than just all talk about working. And definitely don’t ask for a job. Get to know them first, because it becomes very awkward when you meet someone for the first time and then they hit you up for a job, and it’s like you want to help them, but you just met them. So, it’s a little difficult to know what their skill sets are, to know what their personality is like, and who they’re going to fit with. So, it just puts the other person at a very awkward position. So, I would definitely reach out, try to foster a genuine friendship, and maybe by the time you save up your money, you’ll know many, many people, and you move here and they can help you out. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

That’s awesome. Are there any groups or things … like, there’s ACE, but is there anything else in L.A. specific that editors connect on or events that they go to, or anything like that? 

 

Nena Erb:

I think Blue Collar Post Collective. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. I think they’re pretty big and they’re great with welcoming people that are coming into L.A. or California. I believe it’s based in L.A., but I’m not 100% sure. They’re phenomenal. They’ve been very helpful. They sponsor people to go to EditFest every year. Yeah, I think that’s a great organization to connect with. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

So, Derek is asking, are there any techniques to use to build pacing in your edits? 

 

Nena Erb:

No. I rely on my gut. It’s always … it’s an internal thing. I can’t really explain it, but yeah, it’s all just up here. And I think it’ll come to you with practice … come to anybody with practice, I think. You’ll know what the pacing for a certain scene is, if you want it to be comedic versus dramatic. I think after … it just comes with practice. You’ll learn to trust your gut. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

What are your thoughts on temp music and cutting with music when you’re assembling? What is your ideas on … 

 

Nena Erb:

I don’t work with temp music when I’m assembling. I don’t do music until after I’m done, because I want to make sure that the scene can stand on its own without dressing it up with music. So, yeah, I don’t do that. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

What editors would you advise people to study their techniques and style? Do you have any favorite editors? 

 

Nena Erb:

I love Anne V. Coates and how throughout the years, her work is always changing and growing, and she experiments and she wasn’t afraid to try different things. I’m a big fan of her work, and other editors … it’s really just whatever you gravitate towards. I think it’s going to be tough to emulate and to copy another person’s style. I think you have to find your own because I think it has to feel natural to you, right? if you’re always trying to do something that someone else did, and if it doesn’t feel right to you, I don’t think that that would be a good fit. 

So, for me, yeah there’s lots of editors whose work I admire, but at the end of the day, I don’t ever approach a scene and go, oh, Anne Coates would cut it like this. It’s really just what I find in the dailies that speaks to me. And there are times when I’m like, I don’t like the scene. I know that I can do more, and then I’ll think of the crazy stuff that she did, in Out of Sight, and now it’s like, okay. I’m going to step away, kind of free my mind up, so I can think outside the box. So, there’s been times like that, where something she’s done has reminded me to take a risk. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, totally. I think that’s really interesting when you start to hear other editors techniques, and I think I watched something with a Mindhunter and how they were using lots of picture to picture takes of one actor from another scene, and then … and that was one of the first times I heard that and I never really thought about that. I was like, oh, my god, that’s such a great idea. We can do that. The technology’s there, and of course they shot it in a way that it would be also easier to do those things, but yeah, when you start hearing how people break apart things and put things back together, and then you just have that … It’s not even that it’s their specific technique. It’s how they accomplished something for that specific show, because every show has its own style. So, as an editor, our style is dictated by what the show is or what the film is, right? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

But to learn how people craft something with what they have and within that style, you can … yeah, you have those little things in your pocket, which I think is really fun. Do you think it’s necessary for somebody to go to film school … which you did not, but you went to art school … or is it better to find a mentor? 

 

Nena Erb:

I didn’t go to film school, so I can’t really speak to that part of it. I think mentors are very important. I’ve definitely had many throughout my career and I don’t know that I would have the same path without them. So, I highly suggest getting a mentor and film school is not bad. I’ve always wondered if I would have liked film school. If I had the time, I’d probably do it, but is it necessary, I don’t know that it is because I know so many people that didn’t go to film school and they have phenomenal careers. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

What is the role of an editor in pre-production? We touched on you get the script before the table read, but maybe tell us that. You get the script, you read through it. When you’re at the table read, what are you looking for? What are you there to get when you’re watching the table read? 

 

Nena Erb:

If it’s a comedy, I try to pay attention to which jokes are getting the biggest laugh and which jokes aren’t. I think the only show where I’ve been more involved with pre-production has really been Crazy Ex-girlfriend, because of all the musical numbers. They have dance, concept meetings, they have different … There was just a lot of different meetings to go into the prep of it, and sometimes they’ll want to do something that’s really out of the box and they want to make sure that the editor is there to make sure that they can do it and have it be cut together. So, that’s really the only show where I was involved from the pre-production standpoint, I guess. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. What was it like working on My Crazy Ex-girlfriend, having to be a musical and having all those major dance numbers? Did you love that? Was it fun or was it challenging? What did you like about that show? 

 

Nena Erb:

I loved it. It was so fun because every episode has at least two, if not … I think eight is the most we’ve had in an episode, and it can range so wildly in terms of genre. You can have an episode where you’re doing Simon and Garfunkel, and then the next piece is an ’80s hip hop song, and then the next piece … and we’re still in the same episode, could be hard rock. So, yeah, it definitely … I think, as an editor, you have a wide palette to choose from, and I think that’s always exciting, and it’s fun. It’s fun. The lyrics are great. They’re hilarious. The visuals are fun to cut and because they’re not the same genre, I enjoy doing the research for it because that sometimes will always inspire something else, too. So, I really enjoy that. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

What would you recommend people do when it comes to researching things about what they’re going to get into in the edit suite? 

 

Nena Erb:

Well, I think there’s a wealth of information on the internet now. I think if it’s a first season show, I would definitely research the creator, because chances are, they did a pilot somewhere, provided it’s a 

TV show. Yeah. So, there’ll be articles about it, I think, because pilots, when they get picked up, it’s always in the trades, and they’ll interview them. Or maybe they’ve given interviews on other projects they’ve done. See what their creative viewpoint is, if possible, if there’s articles about that. And if they’ve done a show before that, take a look at an episode or two, because I think that’ll really inform what they like and that’ll help you. As you’re starting to cut dailies, you’ll have their taste in your mind, so you can try to give them something that you think they’re going to like. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Charmaine says, do you ever find that your first cuts are super cutty? What’s your protocol for resolving that and pacing it out? 

 

Nena Erb:

I’m not a person that likes to cut a lot. I cut when it’s necessary. I don’t find that my first cuts are super cutty. I find that they might be … they should be more cutty. Yeah. But also, I think it … so much is dictated by the story that you’re telling, right? If it’s a moment that was kind of frenetic, yeah, I’m going to do more cuts. But if it’s a moment where they’re … there’s an episode in season three where Issa is walking down the street with Nathan, and the entire thing is like a very before sunrise episode. For that one, their chemistry was so good. I just let it play. I had some really, really long takes that just … unless the story dictated a cut, I just let it go. I really let the story dictate how often I cut, when I cut, if I cut. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Totally. Yeah. Curious about … so, Andrea is curious about what mouse you use. 

 

Nena Erb:

I have it right here. I’ll show. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Excellent. 

 

Nena Erb:

It’s one with a track ball, but I’ve mounted it so it’s vertical. Your elbows will thank you. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

That makes total sense. Yeah. Any other pieces of equipment, gear that you … You said you like to do standing … a standing desk, 

 

Nena Erb:

There’s a new piece of equipment that I’ve recently discovered and think it’s the best in the world. It’s the cube tab. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

And what is that? I don’t know what that is. 

 

Nena Erb:

I’m pretty sure Ruben introduced us to that. It’s basically a little cube, electrical outlet that basically, you plug it in and it has different prongs. So, you can plug different things into this cube that is now plugged into your outlet. Does that makes sense? 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, yeah. That’s awesome. 

 

Nena Erb:

You can put all kinds of stuff on it. You used to have one outlet and now you have three.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Is it USB things that you can put in, or is it other plugs, just like another …

 

Nena Erb:

I think it’s just more electrical plugs. It’s really ever used on set, because they have  lots of things to plug into it. 





Sarah Taylor:

For sure. Yeah. Well, I know for myself, I get a lot of hard drives, so there’s definitely a lot of things to plug in and I only have so much room on my backup generator thingy. Yeah. Did you have a home system set up and have you been working at home during this time? 

 

Nena Erb:

Well, we finished the final episodes of Insecure at the beginning of lockdown. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Okay. 

 

Nena Erb:

The cuts were mostly done, so it was just a matter of approving mixes and doing VFX shots, but I had a laptop and one extra monitor that was always set up. I wouldn’t call it a full system by any stretch of the imagination, but I imagine that my next job, we’ll probably set one in there and we’ll see. Personally, I don’t want to use my own system, even if I had one. I would rather the show rent me one, because I don’t want to be responsible for getting it back up if it crashes.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yup. 

 

Nena Erb:

I’m not a technical, so … I turn it on and that’s about it. So, yeah. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Do you find that your assistants are super technical? I wonder, there’s a special skillset where I find some editors are like, “No, I don’t want to do the technology,” but then the assistants seemed to be really, really good with the technology. 

 

Nena Erb:

I’ve met many assistants that were phenomenal and they were very tech savvy, which is great, because I’m not, and they can just help troubleshoot much better than I can. I find that very interesting because it’s got to be such a different frame of mind to do your work as an assistant, and then have to switch so that you’re thinking with the creative part of it for editing. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. 

 

Nena Erb:

That’s got to be a tough thing to juggle on a daily basis, if you’re trying to cut after your assistant duties, but … 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. I find … because I often have to do both. So, I find for myself, when I’m sinking and stuff, I’m turning off a certain part of the brain, right? Then when it comes to creativity you’re turning it back on, it’s almost like folding laundry, so you can just do it. It’s like you’re doing the motions or whatever, and then when it comes to the … sometimes it feels harder, like you’re working harder, because your brain is working harder to do the actual editing, if that makes sense.

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah totally.

 

Sarah Taylor:

So, sometimes it’s nice to take that break. If I’m feeling stuck on a cut, I’ll be like, go sync to the next 

whatever I need to sink or whatever I need to prep. I can go do that to take a break from the story issue or whatever it might be. So, if you’re able to do that … maybe I just do that because I have to do that. Derek is asking, do you think … does age come into play when you’re hiring an assistant? 

 

Nena Erb:

For me personally? No. No. I’ve just got to make sure I get along with the person and that this person is a team player. If my assistant isn’t great, we’re both going to go down. Yeah, not just him and not just me. We’re both going to go down. So, yeah, it has to be someone who’s going to have my back and do the work, and someone that I want to have a drink with and hang out with. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Having a connection is … yeah. But then you can trust each other, right? You have each other’s back, right? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah, exactly.

 

Sarah Taylor:

We have a question from Sabrina. She’s going to talk. I’m going to allow you to speak. Go ahead, Sabrina. 

 

Sabrina:

Hello. Thank you so much for doing this. Anyways, my question was about cutting different genres. Do you find … is there a genre that you really, really want to cut, that you have yet to? Or do you find you can jump around fairly easily, or was it difficult to switch around? Do you find you get pigeonholed very easily if you stick to a certain genre and you’re not able to move around as easily? 

 

Nena Erb:

Oh, gosh. A few years ago, I was very deliberate in terms of picking a drama and picking comedy, and then in the last few years, there’s this new blend of comedy that has a lot of drama in it, like Insecure and similar to Crazy Ex, and something like a Little America, too. So, I’ve been trying to do that more, but I’ll tell you, I think it’s … even though it has both comedy and drama, I don’t know that a true drama, like something like Game of Thrones, would even look my way. And actually, I don’t really … I enjoy the Game of Thrones, but I don’t know if I would want to cut that, to be honest. But yeah, so a true drama, I don’t think, would come my way, which is unfortunate. So, yeah, I think people do get pigeonholed. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

How long are you in the edit suite, usually? 

 

Nena Erb:

It’s usually … I try to not go past 12, because then I’m just fried, but there are times when you have to do more than 12, depending on the deadline, if you have a shorter amount of time to turn in an episode or a scene over, but yeah, I try not to go past 12. It’s usually about 10, 11-ish, somewhere around there. Again, a lot of it’s going to depend on how many dailies you get. I’ve had directors that shoot nine hours of dailies. So, for someone like me that wants to watch everything, my days are going to be long. But then you have other directors that shoot three hours a day, then it’s like, oh, it’s perfect. I can watch it all. I can cut it, and I can be home for dinner. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yay! 

 

Nena Erb:

You know.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Do you do any color correcting when you edit? If so, do you have any tips for how someone new to that process should go about it? 

 

Nena Erb:

I don’t really do a lot of it. I will, if a scene … if the dailies come back and it’s not quite right, if it’s too dark, or I’ll probably just drop a color effect on it and up the gamma, just so you can see the image better. But yeah, typically I don’t do color correcting. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Are you typically involved in the color timing when it comes to it at the end? Are you in for that, or just for sound? 

 

Nena Erb:

Just for sound, yeah. I’ve been invited to color sessions on other shows, but on this show, it’s very much the TPs domain. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

That was a big … when I first started talking to editors down in L.A., it was a surprise that you were included in even the sound. That wasn’t something that often … sometimes you’re invited. Well, in my experience anyway. It wasn’t something that was part of the process. You just handed it off and then you were onto the next thing. It wasn’t part of the contract or anything like that. Then I heard editors getting to do that and I was like, well, that makes so much sense. Then now, there’s been a few times where I’ve gotten to and then, yeah, it’s been huge. So, I’m glad that that’s part of the process down in the States, but I’d be curious to hear what other editors in Canada have experienced, because yeah, I don’t think it’s as common. 

 

Nena Erb:

Well, I think it’s so important because there’s a few times where they’ll drop dialogue lines. I will often replace dialogue from another take, but put it in the mouth of … so, the videos from audio, and then in the mix, I’m like, wait a minute. That’s not the one I put in there. I think it’s important for editors to be able to mix because no one’s going to know, other than you. You’re the one that knows it the most.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, totally. When you’re in those sessions, are they taking your direction? Are you in control? Like, you and the director are in control of what’s happening? Can you say, “No, that’s wrong,” and like be okay with that? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah, we usually screen it and then I jot down time code and notes, and then we go through the list of notes and we go to the time code, and they play it and they’re like, “Oh, okay. I see what you mean.” Then you know address it. Some people do it after I leave. Some people do it during. It just depends on how much time you have and all of the mixer. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

I think, also, sometimes … often things get like lost in the translation to the sound system, right? So, you’re like, “How did you … why did you change that?” And it’s like, oh, it just didn’t connect properly, or whatever, right? It’s a simple thing to change, but if you’re not there to do it … Do you have anything on the goal coming up in the future that you know of yet? 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah, potentially. Potentially. I’m not sure if I should talk about it just yet.

 

Sarah Taylor:

That’s fair. That’s fair. That’s good to hear that things are coming. That’s good. 

 

Nena Erb:

Yeah. Yeah, there’s production that’s slowly trickling back in. Of course, no one wants to be the first, so there’s always a show that’s going to be the first early adopter. So, we’ll see what happens. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. 

 

Nena Erb:

And hoping that no one gets sick and we can all go back to work, and yeah. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. It’s definitely … yeah. It’s been a long time. So, hopefully it all works out. It’s been really great. You’ve given us a lot of great advice and insight on your workflow and your process, and your mouse, which these are important things. We need to hear these things, and I’m looking forward to keeping my eyes open for the Emmy’s, to find out if you win. I’ll be cheering for you, regardless. Do you have any last advice, or any other last tips that you want to share with us before we call it a night? 

 

Nena Erb:

You know, I just think, yeah, just keep meeting people. This is such a great time right now, just to meet whoever you want. I would take advantage because I don’t know that we’re going to ever have such access to people that would normally be not within reach at all. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, totally, because they’d be in their edit suite for 12 hours a day, not able to talk to us on Zoom. So, thank you for letting me reach out to you and talk to you about one of my favorite shows, and for taking the time to chat, all things editing. I wish you the best of luck in the future. I hope that everything gets picked up. 

 

Nena Erb:

Thank you so much. 

 

Sarah Taylor:

And I’m so grateful that you took the time to spend with us today. So, thank you again, Nena. 

 

Nena Erb:

Well, thank you so much for having me, and thank you all for coming.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Good night, everybody. 

 

Nena Erb:

Bye.

 

Sarah Taylor:

Thank you so much for joining us today and a big thank you. goes to Nena for taking the time to sit with us. A special thanks goes to Jane MacRae, Jenni McCormick and Ruben Lim. The main title sound design was created by Jane Tattersall, additional ADR recording by Andrea Rusch. Original music provided by Chad Blain and Soundstripe. This episode was mixed and mastered by Tony Bao. 

 

The CCE has been supporting Indspire – an organization that provides funding and scholarships to Indigenous post secondary students. We have a permanent portal on our website at cceditors.ca or you can donate directly at indspire.ca. The CCE is taking steps to build a more equitable ecosystem within our industry and we encourage our members to participate in any way they can.  

 

If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends to tune in. ?Til next time I’m your host Sarah Taylor.

 

[Outtro]

The CCE is a non-profit organization with the goal of bettering the art and science of picture editing. If you wish to become a CCE member please visit our website www.cceditors.ca. Join our great community of Canadian editors for more related info.

 

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The Editors Cut

Episode 045 : Mental Health with Rebecca Day

Episode 045 - Mental Health with Rebecca Day

Episode 45: Mental Health with Rebecca Day

It?s been one year since our worlds have changed and we thought it was a good time to check in on our mental health.

This episode is sponsored by IATSE 891

Sarah Taylor sits down with psychotherapist Rebecca Day to talk about our mental health as creatives in the midst of a pandemic. 

Rebecca Day is a qualified psychotherapist and freelance documentary producer. She founded her company, Film In Mind in 2018 to address mental health in the film industry and has spoken at festivals such as Berlinale, IDFA, Getting Real Documentary Conference, WIFT and Sheffield DocFest on the issue. She offers therapeutic support and supervision to filmmakers working in difficult situations and with vulnerable people, as well as consultancies and workshops on mental health in the film industry. 

Her previous feature, Becoming Animal, directed by Emma Davie & Peter Mettler was a Scottish/Swiss co-production and premiered at CPH Dox in 2018. She is currently working with the impact team on Evelyn, an intimate and poignant film about death by suicide, made by academy award-winning director Orlando Von Eisendel at Grain Media and is producing a documentary with first-time feature director, Duncan Cowles titled, Silent Men.

For more info about Rebecca go to Film In Mind.

Another great mental health resource in Canada is Calltime: Mental Health. The site has a learning centre where you can take online courses about mental health as well as many resources. Links to help with general mental health, depression, anxiety, sleep, alcohol and addiction, suicide, BIPOC and LGBTQ+ resources. There is loads of information!

Écoutez maintenant

Sarah Taylor:

This episode is generously sponsored by IATSE 891.

Sarah Taylor:

Hello, and welcome to The Editor’s Cut. I’m your host, Sarah Taylor. We would like to point out

the lands on which we have created this podcast, and that many of you may be listening to us

from, are part of ancestral territory. It is important for all of us to deeply acknowledge that we

are on ancestral territory that has long served as a place where indigenous peoples have lived,

met, and interacted. We honor, respect, and recognize these nations that have never

relinquished their rights or sovereign authority over the lands and waters on which we stand

today. We encourage you to reflect on the history of the land, the rich culture, the many

contributions, and the concerns that impact indigenous individuals and communities. Land

acknowledgements are the start to a deeper action.

Sarah Taylor:

It’s been quite the year, right? Feel like it’s a good time to check in with our mental health, so

today, I’m bringing you a conversation I had with psychotherapist Rebecca Day. Rebecca’s a

qualified psychotherapist and freelance documentary producer. She founded her company, Film

in Mind, in 2018 to address mental health in the film industry. She has spoken at festivals such as

Berlinale, IDF, Getting Real documentary conference, WIFT, and Sheffield Doc/Fest on the issue.

She offers therapeutic support and supervision to filmmakers working in difficult situations and

with vulnerable people, as well as consultancies and workshops on mental health in the film

industry. Her previous feature, Becoming Animal, directed by Emma Davie and Peter Mettler,

was a Scottish-Swiss co-production and premiered at CPH:DOX in 2018. She’s currently working

with the impact team on Evelyn, an intimate and poignant film about death by suicide made by

Academy-Award-winning director Orlando von Einsiedel at Green Media and is producing a

documentary with first-time director Duncan Cowles, titled Silent Men.

[show open]

Sarah Taylor:

Rebecca Day, thank you so much for joining us today. You’re based in London, is that correct?

Rebecca Day:

Well, actually in the Lake District in the north of England. It’s not in a city, which is lovely.

Sarah Taylor:

Oh, awesome! So thank you for joining us from all the way over the pond. Today, we’re going to

talk about mental health. We’re in a really trying time in the world, and I think it’s a good time to

check in and see how we’re all doing and maybe talk about things that can make our lives as

creatives a little bit easier. I’m really interested to learn about your journey, because you have a

company called Film in Mind, and you’re a psychotherapist, but you’re also a filmmaker. So can

you tell us a little bit about where you’re from, how you got into the film industry, and then how

Film in Mind came to be?

Rebecca Day:

Yeah, of course. Well, firstly, thank you for having me. It’s a real pleasure to be here. Yeah, I’ve

been working as a documentary producer for about… I think it’s coming on to 15 years, actually,

now. I’m still producing a little bit, but I’m pretty much almost full-time now as a

psychotherapist. I worked pretty much all in independent documentary, so feature-length films

being made for cinema, very tricky, challenging funding routes; tricky, challenging stories; lots of

really moving, emotional subject matter. Also, a really varied stuff over the years, and moving

around that independent international film circuit and just really getting to know the industry on

that level.

Rebecca Day:

During my time doing it, I guess there were just parts of the producing work that resonated with

me more than other parts, so it would be more of the emotional connection work, the outreach

and audience engagement stuff that I started working on, really appealed to me, and I wanted to

find out how I could connect with that more in the work that I was doing and sort of moving

away from some of the budgeting kind of stuff. Which I guess I was good at, but it didn’t really

speak to me from a passion perspective, I suppose, and I started my psychotherapy training a

few years ago, I think. 2016, I think it was, and qualified a couple of years later.

Rebecca Day:

And it was during that transition period that I started to make these connections between the

therapy world and the world of documentary in particular. I’m starting to see this with the fiction

world now as well, but at the time, it was very much about documentary, and it was this

realization that people making documentaries are immersing themselves in very much the same

difficult content, if I can use that word, because obviously, we wouldn’t use that word as a

therapist, but I can (as a) filmmaker. Subject matter, stories, being immersed with people in that

way, but without the support structures and without the training, really, to emotionally hold

themselves safe while doing that work.

Rebecca Day:

I’d experienced through colleagues, my own experience as well, and friends of mine, seeing

people drop out of the industry from burnout and exhaustion, or relationships breaking down

because we didn’t have the time to communicate effectively with each other, and a lot… I guess

lots of emotional strain that wasn’t being talked about that I then really wanted to address once

I’d gone through my training and realized that I kept writing about this in all of my essays. Yeah,

so it kind of came out of that, and then I created Film in Mind. I set it up as a private practice,

really, just reaching out to the film community and saying, “I’m here for therapy,” and it’s kind of

snowballed from there. I work with clients as a therapist, hourly sessions, weekly or fortnightly,

all around the world, all on Zoom. There’s not many filmmakers in the Lake District. And then

speaking on.. speaking in events and festivals and doing a little bit of training.. as well. So..Yeah,

it’s really varied and really rewarding work.

Sarah Taylor:

Do you find that a lot of your clients are actually in the film industry? Like did you really, like

they’ve tapped into that, and they’ve found you.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have a.. Yeah! I do work with clients who aren’t in the film industry as well,

but it’s a very small percentage of my work. The majority of my clients are… mostly directors, but

I do have a lot of other practitioners working in different departments coming for support as

well, and sometimes we focus completely on the work, and I’d say for the most part, you know,

it’s all the other stuff that life chucks at us that comes into the therapy as well.

Sarah Taylor:

Totally, yeah. I think it’s really interesting, and I’ve never really sat back to think about it, but as a

therapist, you’re trained on how to give yourself space and time to process and not to take on

other people’s stuff. That’s what I’m assuming. And as the documentary editor, I’m really digging

into these people’s stories, and they’re stories that are traumatic, and there’s all sorts of things

that we discover in the edit suite.

Sarah Taylor:

But yeah, we don’t have the tools to see that, “Oh, I’m feeling really stressed right now,” or, “I’m

feeling really anxious right now. Well, maybe it does have something to do with what I’m

working on, and it’s not just something’s wrong with me, but it’s how I’m consuming and

absorbing the information that I’m looking at all day long.” So I’m just commenting on how

fantastic it is that you saw that, and you decided, “I’m going to pursue this, and I’m going to help

people unpack all this information, and how do we protect ourselves?” And so I’m just curious, is

there something that you could suggest as a first way of maybe shifting our mindsets into how to

keep ourselves safe when we’re working on content that’s really challenging?

Rebecca Day:

Yeah, I think the first, most important thing is for us as a community to recognize that the work

we do is emotionally challenging. That’s the first part, because we seem to work in a culture

where we’re not allowed to admit it. It’s that sort of show-no-weakness kind of attitude, and it’s

not a weakness to say that when you’re sitting for hours editing really hard footage that that is

going to have a strain on you emotionally. That’s one of the first things we learn as therapists, is

don’t shy away from the work, but learn how to do it safely, because the work is always going to

be challenging, and if this is where you want to be, then there’s things that you can put in place

to make sure that you can show up for your clients. And I think for me, it just felt exactly the

same for filmmakers. It wasn’t saying, “Don’t do that work, because it’ll be too hard for you.” It’s

saying, “How can you do it in a way that keeps you strong and keeps you healthy and keeps you

really present in it?” And the first step of that is saying, “Oh, no, this is going to be difficult for

me, but that doesn’t make me weak.” It’s that recognition of it.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Yeah, and I think once you have those realizations, it’s things like, okay, well, I know that

the first few weeks of doing a new doc, when I’m looking through all the footage and really

getting to know what’s happening, I might not overbook myself, or I might need to make sure I

put in place things that make me feel good after I’m done working, or that sort of thing. But we

can’t do that until we acknowledge that yes, this is going to be challenging, and that is okay. So

that’s really great.

Sarah Taylor:

As you know, as a filmmaker, obviously, we aren’t in a career that is stable or constant. There’s

always stuff that’s happening where we don’t know when the next gig’s going to be, or we don’t

know how long the project might be, or now we’re in the middle of a pandemic that has been

almost a year. And so how do we, as creatives, stay healthy and avoid burnout or avoid

depression when we’re kind of always trying to catch the next thing in some ways?

Rebecca Day:

It’s a really good question, Sarah, because I think if you had asked me that question

pre-pandemic, my answer probably would’ve been quite similar. I think the pandemic has added

a layer onto what we were already experiencing. Especially in the doc world, we were starting to

recognize that we were in a mental health crisis before the pandemic hit, and conversations

around burnout and depression were happening, but they were happening very quietly and

behind the scenes. I think what the pandemic has allowed us to do is, in some ways, made us

realize how resilient we are because we are used to working with uncertainty.

Rebecca Day:

Some ways, we’ve actually been quite well-equipped to cope with this, because we’ve been used

to that sort of shifting world around us and never really knowing on, but in other ways, I’ve really

noticed as well that the industry just galvanized and were like, “Right, what can we do? How can

we survive this? How can we get through it?” And there was sort of this huge lead as well for a

pause and just to use the time that we had to… You know..When work was being canceled, and

all of that was happening, just to say, “This is time for you to kind of heal from the ten years, or

however long you’ve been working in the industry, to heal from all of that potential burnout that

you’ve been suffering,” and for people to notice where they were at, to take stock.

Rebecca Day:

And I’m hearing that had happened to lots of people, but on the flip side, there was also that

real FEAR of, “I CAN`T? I don’t feel creative. I can’t muster the energy to work on these projects

that I’ve been putting off and now have time to do,” or whatever we have been placed with…

And I think what we weren’t really talking about or recognizing is that we were all experiencing

some kind of collective trauma. I think we probably understand that a bit better now, but we

were kind of living in this sort of weird state of fear, quite prolonged, lengthy period of fear. Well,

when your brain is in sort of protective mode, actually can’t be creative. That part of your brain

shuts down, because it’s in survival mode.

Rebecca Day:

So I talked a lot at the beginning of the pandemic about just being kind to yourself and not

pushing yourself too hard and waiting for the creativity to come back, because your body kind of

needed to come back down to Earth and feel safe again before you could start being creative.

And it’s very possible that some people are still in that place.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s really… makes me think. Totally, that makes sense, and we put a lot of

pressure on ourselves, because it’s like, “Well, what else am I supposed to do right now? I’m

home. I can’t go anywhere. I should be able to make this thing, and I should be able to make it

really great, but I can’t.” So to hear, “Yeah, well, your brain is on overdrive, and you’re working

through something that is something we’ve never dealt with before.” And..Yeah… And I know for

some people, they were then trying to do their work and have their kids at home and have their

spouse at home, and maybe they had no one at home, and they were alone. So we’ve really had

to work through… a lot of heavy things, I feel, during this time.

Sarah Taylor:

On the flip side, though, it kind of, for me anyway, showed how important the work we do is,

how people then turn to the TV or to films to kind of maintain some sort of comfort. And we got

to see all these shows and binge-watch the shows that we never got to watch before because we

were too busy and learned stories from people that we didn’t necessarily know about before,

because we had this time to just kind of be. So for me, it made me proud of the work that I do

put out in the world, because sometimes, in a moment of crisis, a world crisis, people took time

to reflect and be in those moments with those films and those shows. So there’s two sides to

everything, I guess.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. I kind of touched on, some people were isolated and alone, and as editors, we typically do

work alone most of the time. So now, there’s people that are working alone and not able to see

people, so do you have any advice or tips about how to deal with that isolation and that

loneliness that’s happening normally, maybe, in our work, but also extra now because of the

pandemic?

Rebecca Day:

I guess it really depends on your living situation, doesn’t it, because some people might be

working alone in their job, but as soon as they finish, they’re then dialing into a noisy family and

all of that brings. So you might find that what you’re not getting is any head space to yourself.

And then there could be people with different experiences, who are living alone and are really

craving that human contact and I guess it’s about trying to make the most of the things that you

are allowed to do, whether it’s going for a walk with a friend… I can´t imagine for editors, it must

just feel exhausting, the thought of getting on Zoom and talking to a friend.

Sarah Taylor:

Yes.

Rebecca Day:

Having been on screen all day, and… Yeah, I definitely have Zoom fatigue, it became a thing quite

quickly, because I do all of my work on Zoom now. I find that going for a walk and having a phone

call instead was a really nice way to connect with people. I don’t know what it’s been like where

you are, Sarah, but we’ve always been allowed to exercise with one other person as well. I like

exercising on my own, because it gives me head space, but I’ve also used it as an excuse to meet

up with a friend and have a walk or a run, just to have some contact with someone. I guess it’s

about finding those ways that you can connect that also take you off the screen, which is really

hard.

Rebecca Day:

In the long term, when we’re not finding ourselves in a pandemic, loneliness and isolation is

something that filmmakers, not just editors, but directors and especially documentary makers,

obviously, because we work in really small teams, talk about a lot. Maybe the times they only

really connect with other people is when they go to a film festival, and one of the things that has

been really useful for me as a therapist, and I wish I’d had this when I was producing full time, is I

do peer-to-peer… We call it peer-to-peer supervision, but it’s really a catch-up with two or three

other therapists once a month, and we schedule it in monthly. We put two hours aside for it, and

we make sure that everyone has a chance to talk. So it’s useful to structure it so that if

somebody has an issue that they want to bring, something… so it’s not just a free-flowing

conversation, that there’s space for people to bring the thing that’s on their minds. That can be a

really useful sort of constructive but supportive place just to share and feel safe in doing that.

Sarah Taylor:

Especially as a freelance editor, for myself, I don’t work with other editors unless they are

working in their edit suite in their house or wherever they are, and that is the thing that I hear a

lot of people say that they miss about not working in a studio, and I think a lot of people who

had worked in studios pre-pandemic miss that you can go down the hall, and you can sit in the

edit suite, and you can say, “Hey, I just need a break from my screen,” or, “Hey, can you come

look at this edit?” So to actually give yourself the permission to schedule in time to be like, “Hey,

let’s watch my cut,” that’s brilliant. That’s such a great idea. I hope that people take that and do

it, because I think I’m going to have to implement that into my schedule.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah, I think so. And obviously, nobody’s getting paid for that time, but I see it as a really crucial

part of my work, you know.. To set that time aside. And if it’s once a month, it doesn’t feel like a

huge commitment out of your working schedule, but it feels really nourishing and important.

Sort of keep me steady.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. And I think we often get those kind of… I know when I go to, say… because before, with

the CCE, we would have pub nights, and we would get to talk shop, and we’d meet and have

different talks and stuff, and I would always get energized after that, because I got to sit with an

editor and talk about editing for three hours, and it was just the best thing ever. So yeah, to

implement that into your schedule and make that part of being an editor, yeah, that’s a brilliant

idea. Thank you for that one.

Rebecca Day:

You’re welcome.

Sarah Taylor:

Something else I think is really interesting and something I worked through as a freelancer is

setting boundaries of when I’m working and when I’m not working, and I think it’s really hard

right now, too, because a lot of people are working from home, to kind of blur the work time

with life time, and like, “Well, I’m here all day anyway. I’ll just work for 12 hours.” Do you have

any suggestions or ways of you know, setting boundaries for yourself, to say, “This is what’s good

for me,” and then being able to relay that to the directors or the producers you’re working with?

Rebecca Day:

Yeah. I mean, it’s easier said than done, isn’t it? But just set your working hours.

Sarah Taylor:Yes

Rebecca Day:

I would just really strictly set your working hours right at the very beginning when you establish

that relationship. You know that if things overrun or you’re working on something really that you

don’t want to step away from, and you want to continue for another hour, you as the editor then

have the choice about whether or not you want to extend for an hour or you know offer a couple

of hours over your weekend, if that’s what’s needed. You get to choose that. But if you set really

strict working hours, there are the ones you commit to, and then you have the choice and

flexibility of whether or not to play with those hours as and when it’s needed, but only when it

feels critical.

Rebecca Day:

You know, I’m really strict about my weekends. It helps that I have a child, so I kind of need to be,

you know but I do occasionally work at the weekends when I have to. But it is that moment

critical moment of, “What’s the benefit of doing this at the weekend if I can’t fit this into the

week?” So it has to be.. I have to kind of talk it through, mull it through, in my head and make

sure that my family’s okay with it and just have those really strict boundaries. Once you get into

the habit of it, it starts to feel very easy. It’s just breaking the habit of being available all the time.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, yeah. I think with technology being in our hands to answer the email or the thing, it is

really easy to just always be on. I found for myself I didn’t set those boundaries until I had a kid,

too, and then I was like, “Well, I can’t. I physically can’t be in my edit suite, because I have to take

care of my child.” So…

Rebecca Day:

I was just going to say about notifications, Sarah, one thing you could do is just turn your

notifications off, but maybe a more helpful thing, because I know people find that difficult, is I

turn off the description of the notification, so when it comes to my phone, I can see I have an

email, but I can’t see who it’s from or what’s in it, and I find that so helpful. Because then I’m

like, “Okay, there’s an email. I’ll choose to look at it when I.. I have time. But if you can see the

content, it’s really hard to step away from it then.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, yeah. Especially when you’re really excited about a project, and you’re like… there’s that

other side of it where you really want to actually do the work, but you need to allow yourself to

have time to reset and settle, I think.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

Sometimes that’s even hard, when you’re really passionate about what you’re working on. You

might want to work all the time. Something you said earlier is not giving yourself mental space

for yourself, and I think sometimes we miss that. If you are a caregiver to children or you have

other responsibilities, you still have to incorporate time for just you. Because I know for myself,

sometimes, I’m like, “Oh, well, I worked for eight hours today. I was by myself. That’s me time.”

But it’s not me time, because I’m working, and I’m doing other things. I’m not doing just what I

need to do to be a full human. Do you have any thoughts on what we could do to allow ourselves

to have those times?

Rebecca Day:

Yeah, again, I guess it’s listening to your instincts, isn’t it? I understand what you’re saying,

especially when you talk about really enjoying your work, because I love my work. I’m so happy

to do the job that I do and to sit down at my desk and connect with people in this way, but that

doesn’t mean that I want to do it all of the time, and I still try to set those boundaries between

work, life, and that time that I need for myself. If I can feel myself getting irritable or too tired or

a bit detached from my work, that’s often a sign for me. It’s just either wanting the day to end or

not really being 100% present. That’s when I notice that, “Okay, I need to take an hour to myself

with nobody else and go for a walk or go for a run,” or whatever it might be. Or just cook with

nobody else around. Or you know… The weather’s getting warmer, gardening tends to be my

thing as well.

Sarah Taylor:

I just got into gardening last year, and I was like, “Why have I missed this all these years? It’s so

relaxing.” I loved it.

Rebecca Day:

Me too. Yeah, it was last year for me as well. Through the lockdown.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, the lockdown brought out all sorts of things that we could invest in or look into.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

We talked a little bit about this earlier, about working on traumatic content. Do you have a

suggestion on if we know… “Okay, I’m going to start this project, and I know it’s going to be really

heavy.” Is there a way of looking at it or prepping ourselves to feel like we have more control of

our emotional state while we’re working on something that’s very dramatic?

Rebecca Day:

I think it’s really wise to say to yourself that yeah, you could be traumatized from working on

this. And again, the same as I said before, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it, but there’s

things that you can put in place to make sure that you’re resilient through it. The first question to

ask is, “Am I likely to be traumatized because this is really challenging, or am I likely to be

traumatized, or am I doing this project, because I relate to the trauma?” Because if there is

something I’ve known from a lot of people are drawn to work because it’s something they see

themselves in or a subject they’re familiar with. If that’s the case, and it’s a processed for you, I

wouldn’t say, “Don’t do it,” but I would say, “Make sure that you’ve processed it emotionally first,

or at least while you’re working on the project.” And the best way to do that is with a therapist.

They’re hard questions to ask. They’re big questions to ask yourself, but you don’t want to

potentially be re-traumatized or traumatized in the middle of that work. I don’t know if the

editing world talks about vicarious trauma very often.

Sarah Taylor:

I don’t think I’ve ever heard that phrase, so tell us. Tell us more.

Rebecca Day:

It’s not something we talk about usually in the film industry, but it’s second time trauma.

Therapists obviously understand this quite well, the idea that you can be traumatized from

sitting with someone else’s trauma, from supporting someone, or helping someone else cope

with their own trauma. Which I realize editors aren’t communicating directly with the people

who might be revealing their trauma in the footage, but you’re witnessing it over and over and

over again quite repetitively as well. So vicarious trauma is a very real risk, and there’s certain

ways that you can notice that might be happening.

Rebecca Day:

The first and most simple thing is a mood check. If you’ve finished a day of editing, and you’ve

stepped away from the computer, are you coming away with rage, or sadness, or anger that feels

out of proportion to how you normally might feel? And it could be that you’re holding onto

something. The other feeling you could have is feelings of guilt. Say, if you’re working on

something like a climate change documentary, or something like that, or something that’s sort of

speaking to the politics of our time, and you’re sitting there with all that guilt, what’s happening

in the world, and again, it’s out of proportion to how you might normally feel about something.

You’re holding all of that, and you’re not able to switch off from your work. That’s another

indication of vicarious trauma. The other thing to be wary of that you can notice is detachment.

So, if you feel yourself having no emotions to it, detaching from it, again, that’s the brain’s way of

saying, “This is too much.” You don’t want to be surrounded by it.

Sarah Taylor:

So if you notice those things, any of those four, I think you said, what should you do?

Rebecca Day:

I think you should ask yourself if you’re getting enough breaks. Are you working seven days a

week? Because if you are, that’s probably not wise. Are you stepping away from your computer,

even if it’s just for five minutes every hour, to just make sure that you have a break from the

screen and just to clear your head? Are you eating enough? Are you sleeping enough? And then

lastly, do you need extra support? So, wherever that’s speaking to a therapist, or again, that idea

peer-to-peer supervision would be really helpful in that sense. I’m also working with filmmakers

in a supervisory way as well, so where it’s not the personal that they’re bringing to the therapy,

but it’s completely work-related. So looking at projects and the effects that they’re having on

you. Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

So if you’re working on a film that you know is going to be something heavy, you could have

somebody like you on hand and be like, “Okay, I’m starting to feel detached, or I’m starting to

feel whatever it might be. I think I need to talk to this.”

Rebecca Day:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah. It’s a step towards normalizing it, isn’t it?

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, yeah, and knowing that, “Oh, I can listen to myself, and I can step away,” because again, in

this industry, and I feel like a lot of it’s shifting because of us being in a moment of reflection

with COVID, that we are like, “Get it done, go, go, go. Get it as much as we can cut out. You

know?” And we are not looked at necessarily as humans with emotions. You work your 12-hour

day, you work seven days a week, because we have a deadline, and there’s notes to do, or

whatever. And this is why I want to talk about this stuff, so that we can normalize it, like you say,

to normalize that we do, are going to feel things, and that that’s normal and that we can get the

supports we need, if we continue to talk about it.

Rebecca Day:

Absolutely. I think the need for normalizing it is so, so important. In terms of long working hours,

you know as a therapist, I have a set number of clients that I would see in a day, and however in

need somebody is, I won’t squeeze in another appointment, because I have to have the energy

to be there for them. It’s more dangerous for me to show up for a client and be exhausted and

without the energy to actually engage with them than it is to squeeze them in. You know? And

so those sorts of boundaries are so important, and I think it really applies here in filmmaking as

well, in terms of energy levels that you have for your edit. So if you’re working 12 hours a day,

seven days a week, I would suggest that you’re probably working at half your capacity during

some of that time.

Sarah Taylor:

For sure!

Rebecca Day:

To reduce that, you might be working at 75% of your capacity rather than 50%.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, that’s something that I noticed. I started to really tune into myself and be like, “Okay, well,

this is when I’m the most creative, so let’s do this type of work when I’m most creative.” The

theory of working smarter instead of working harder, and I think we, by, again, talking about it

and sharing how you work as an editor can allow other people to take that time to reflect and be

like, “Oh, well, when am I the most creative? Maybe I do work best at one in the morning

because I’m a night owl,” or whatever. And just to be like, “That’s how I work, and that’s how I do

my best work, and I don’t have to be working for 12 hours a day, because I’m going to be sitting

there for six just zoning out at the screen and not actually doing anything.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, I think we as creatives and as editors have to take that time to just reflect and be like,

“Well, what’s best that I can bring to the job to do the best job I can do?” And definitely, for me,

no more than eight hours in the edit suite, because I’m not productive anymore.

Rebecca Day:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. Another thing that we as freelancers, because a lot of editors are freelancers, we usually

get work through word of mouth, and going to events and networking, and meeting new

producers or directors, and now we can’t do that, and a lot of people have been kind of forced to

try to network online. So I don’t know if you have any ideas or thoughts on how to be more

comfortable, even just selling yourself and being like, “I do this work. I’m really good,” but also

doing it online.

Rebecca Day:

It’s really hard, isn’t it? Because I’m not naturally comfortable online either. And thankfully,

because there’s not many of us doing this work as therapy for film, there’s not a huge amount of

competition for me at the moment, so I don’t have to do an awful lot of marketing, which is a

real relief, because I’d be terrible at it. So I really sympathize with that. I really miss film festivals.

I love going to those places and just those spontaneous meetings that you have with people that

lead to really fulfilling working relationships.

Rebecca Day:

It is something that will start again. I know it will, I just don’t know when, and I know everyone

else feels the same, so I guess all we can do at the moment is just show up for the online stuff if

it feels useful, and to know that if you’re going to show up and can’t find the opportunity to

speak, then maybe it’s not the most useful thing for you. But also, I guess there’s something

about being proud of the work that you’ve done and shouting about it if you can, if that’s what

you want to do. I know a lot of people feel quite awkward about that, don’t they? About going

online, going on Instagram or Facebook or whatever the platform is that you use and saying, “I

worked on this amazing documentary,” and really owning the role that you had in that, whatever

film it was that you made. Maybe that’s where we need to be a little bit louder and a little bit

more confident. I don’t have a brilliant answer for that one, I’m afraid.

Sarah Taylor:

Well, even that’s helpful. I’ve found over the time… We..I was introduced to you through a panel

at a random virtual coffee with filmmakers, and I was like, “Well, I’ll just go.” And my plan when I

went to that event was to just do some work and listen, and then it was actually really engaging,

and I was just into it. So sometimes, you can actually find those moments via this weird Zoom

world, that we can.. Somebody might say something that sparks something, and we can.. it’s

almost like we have the permission even more so now to just be like, “Hey, can I connect with

you? Because..you know? Can I have your email? Can we exchange later?” And we can connect

with people from around the world in our house, which is nice, but we have to still put ourselves

in that situation in order to make those connections.

Which, I guess in reality, even we’d still have to go to the event to go and network in person,

which can be really challenging, too, and a little nerve-racking, especially… often as editors, like

we said earlier, we work by ourselves, and we might work with a huge team of people, but we’ve

never met them. So we go to these events, and you’re like, “I worked on this film. Hey, I worked

with your footage,” or, “I saw your name in the credits. I put your name in the credits, but I’ve

never met you.” And to have that courage to go up and say, “Hi, this is who I am,”. It also, I think

that even extends to posting about what you work on and being like, “Hey, this is what I did.”

Again, giving yourself permission to just be proud of what you do and how you contribute to

stuff.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah. And knowing how you feel comfortable communicating and socializing as well, because I

notice that since I’ve been working in the film industry as a therapist, I feel a lot more confident

in myself than I did as a producer. I always felt that I wasn’t loud enough as a producer. I’m

naturally quite a quiet person, and for some reason, that’s more acceptable in the role. I feel like

it’s more acceptable now than when I was a producer, and so I’ve just become more at ease, I

think, with my voice and how I can use it in a way that I was as a producer. So I guess it’s

knowing yourself in that way as well, and saying, “How far am I willing to go out of my comfort

zone?”

Sarah Taylor:

Something else that I’ve encountered over the years is a lot of… I guess this kind of relates to

cheerleading for yourself, but the negative self-talk we often have as creatives, where it’s like,

“Oh, this isn’t going to be good. I don’t know what I’m doing.” Every project’s different, and

there’s always challenges, and how to maybe deal with what you might be telling yourself when

you’re in the midst of doing something, and the creativity it’s not there? Especially this year,

where you were mentioning earlier how our brains weren’t being creative because we were in

trauma. So how can we practice speaking to ourselves better?

Rebecca Day:

I really like that question. I think kindness goes a long way, and the kindness that you offer

yourself, as well as the kindness that you need and are hopefully receiving from other people.

Getting to know your critical voice is a really crucial thing. Everyone has one, but some people’s

critical voice is a lot louder than others, I think. I attended a training course recently, and we did

a little bit of work on the inner critic. There were 120 people in the course, and everyone was

communicating over the chat box on Zoom, and when they moved on to the inner critic part,

they asked us, you know, we did a sort of self-reflection exercise on our critical voice, and you

were asked to identify it. Get to know it. Could you describe it?

And it was amazing the amount people that were like, “Yes, it’s me when I was ten,” or, “Oh, it’s

my mother,” or, “It’s my…” And… Really how intimately people knew it when they were

prompted in the right way, of going, “Where is that criticism coming from, and how can I

challenge it kindly?” So not shut it down. It’s there for a reason. Imagine a world where you

didn’t have a critic. We’d all be enormous egos. It’s there for a reason, but if it’s dominating,

what does it need? How can you sort of talk to it in a compassionate way to try and reduce that

criticism down so it’s not destabilizing for you, or paralyzing? Again, useful with a therapist.

Sarah Taylor:

Yes. Yeah. You’ll learn those things. Well, that does bring to me the question of what kind of tips

do you have for self-care for creatives and for keeping ourselves healthy and well in our mind

during normal being in this industry and also amidst a pandemic?

Rebecca Day:

Yeah, I think I’ve said to you before that there’s… We’ve talked about a lot of this already, I think,

in the podcast.

Sarah Taylor:

I think so, yeah.

Rebecca Day:

About self-care and setting boundaries, stepping away from the screen, finding the thing that

relaxes you. Don’t listen to your friend or Instagram or your parents who think you should be

doing the thing that works for them. I mean, it’s nice to get tips and advice, and you can take

that and try things, but it might not be the thing for you. So the important thing is when you

discover something that relaxes you, do that thing, because for everybody, it’s different. Like you

and I were talking about gardening. We only discovered that last year, and I find it so soothing,

and I can’t even really describe why. Sometimes, I can go for a run, and it can make me feel really

anxious, and other times, it can make me feel great, and it’s just knowing what I need in that

moment as well. So there’s not just one thing that works, it’s, “What do I need right now, in this

moment?”

That’s always a really good question, “Is the thing that I’m about to do what my body is asking

for, or does it need to be something else?” Because sometimes we’re too exhausted to exercise,

but that’s often the go-to kind of thing, and maybe you just need to curl up and read a book or

cook yourself some nice, healthy food. It’s different for everybody, but just allowing yourself that

question, “What do I need right now in this moment to feel more stable?” or calmer, or whatever

it is that you’re going through, is that first step, I think. The self-care is every day. Something

every day to take care of yourself is really important.

Sarah Taylor:

That’s key, hearing you say “every day,” because I feel like often, we… go to the… “Oh, I guess I

should pause,” when you’re already at that state of almost at the end, almost about to burn out,

or almost about to break down, or whatever. You’re like, “Whoa, I should go to the gym, or I

should whatever…” But just like you say, with that peer-to-peer support, like, maybe schedule

yourself in. Like, “Okay, I’m gonna give myself… It doesn’t matter what time of the day, but I need

to give myself an hour to just do whatever feels right for today,” to give yourself that space.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

Can people from Canada or around the world reach out to you if they find what you’ve said in

this episode helpful and maybe want to work with you on the therapy side of things?

Rebecca Day:

Yeah. Yeah, they absolutely can. You could… I’m a little bit active on Instagram, I guess. You can

contact me that way, but my email is on my website, filminmind.co.uk. I couldn’t get .com,

annoyingly. So yeah, I can be contacted that way. I’m hoping to have some other therapists that I

can work with soon, because I’m getting very busy. But yeah, if you know of any

editors-turned-therapists out there, then let me know. Maybe we should have somebody

specifically with it.

Sarah Taylor:

That would be amazing! Hey, any listeners out there who are editors-turned-therapists, we have

a new colleague.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s a natural progression, it seems. I think I’ve used this phrase quite

a lot, but I do find that this industry naturally attracts people who are very compassionate and

caring, so I’m not surprised often that a lot of people who’ve worked in the creative roles end up

moving into therapy.

Sarah Taylor:

Well, there’s a thing that a lot of editors say, is that the edit suite is a therapy room, because we

deal with the emotions and feelings of the directors we work with, and so in a way, yeah. We’ve

already listening to everybody’s problems. We obviously don’t have the training, which is why it’s

important to talk about this stuff.

Rebecca Day:

That’s an interesting thing to bring up, Sarah, and I don’t know if you were about to close there,

but just the idea of caring for others as well, because it’s not just the subject matter that you’re

sitting with. It is the fact that you’re often sitting in the room as the person that the director can

talk to about what they’re going through, and that is exhausting. You are sitting in the therapist’s

chair then, but without anywhere to take it, and you can’t be that person for the director as well

as working through all of that footage. I mean, of course a relationship needs to be established,

but when we’re talking about boundaries, that needs to be really clear as well in that

relationship, because it has to be healthy and working. So if it’s exhausting you, then maybe

there needs to be a conversation about where else you can both get some extra support from.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. I think it’s interesting, because in the doc world, often the filmmaker can be part of the

documentary, right? They’re the ones that… they’re searching for whatever answers there are.

And so I’ve definitely experienced seeing directors work through their own stuff as… It is a form

of therapy for them to tell the story that they’ve been meaning to tell or wanting to tell, and they

go through a transformation. And you, as their editor, you’re joining them. You’re seeing it

happen. You’re seeing it unfold.

And I know for myself, it’s hard not to take some of that on, because I think in some ways, too,

some of the personalities of people who are in the role of editor, we do feel emotion deeply, and

which is, I think, why we’re drawn to this type of work. So, yeah..What we’ve talked about, I

think, is really helpful that you know. Acknowledge that that’s happening. Ask the questions, or

ask for help. Or, yeah, set the boundary, like, “I can’t talk about this right now. I’m not in the right

space to talk about this right now,” or whatever it might need to be. But to know that you have

control to do that and that it’s safe for you.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah. Something about it being… “Oh, this feels like a bigger conversation outside of what we

need to achieve today, so how can this happen for you?” Because you’re working with the

director at their most vulnerable, I think, in the edit room. Their whole film is sitting there before

them. The both of you are responsible for putting it together, and they’re bringing all of their

emotion and sometimes years and years of filming that material into the room.

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah. These are the things that we maybe don’t realize, don’t think about, don’t talk about, but

have a huge impact on what we deal with and go through every day.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

I don’t know. Maybe for some people, because we haven’t been able to have in-person edit

sessions with our directors and whatever this year as often, maybe… I’m curious if people have

noticed a difference in how they feel, because maybe they’re not having to have that role of

therapist to the person anymore, and that kind of thing.

Rebecca Day:

Wonder if you’ve experienced increased anxiety from your directors for being…

Sarah Taylor:

Farther?! In some ways, people have had to adjust, and then it’s also a moment where people

are like, “Oh, it does work. It’s okay. We can still do this. It’s okay.” And I feel like for me, I like to

work alone on stuff, and then I’ve had people who… “No, I want to sit with you for the eight

hours,” and I’m like, “But I don’t like that…” And now, it’s like, “Oh, no, she can still do the job,”

or, “We can still get it done,” and schedule two hours to do the thing. But every editor’s

different, and every director/producer’s different.

Sarah Taylor:

But I know for myself during this whole thing of the pandemic and also being a freelancer for…

I’ve been working on my own for almost 12 years, and so I know how I work, and I know how I

operate now, and having this time to really just be like, “No, this is how I need to do things, and

this is good, and I’m glad that I know…” It’s kind of given me more confidence, in a way, to be

like, This is how I can get things done at the best that I can get them, and now I have had the

time to figure it out, and that’s good. And, so just letting ourselves have the time and to not have

to take every project on and be constantly working, to give the time to actually look inside.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah. And then ask for what you need as well..

Sarah Taylor:

Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Day:

State the terms for how you are at your most productive and your most creative and your best.

Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

I think that’s the biggest thing I learned recently, was to say, “I work the best by doing this, and

to provide you the best edit, this is how I can do it for you. And if that works for you, then we can

work together. If that doesn’t work for you, then maybe I’m not the editor for you.” But to allow

yourself to… And sometimes, you can’t do that. Sometimes you need to take a job because you

need the money, but to know what your ideal is and to be able to voice that.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah. But normally, you find that the more confident you are about that, people have a lot of

faith in that. They really do.

Sarah Taylor:

Totally. Well, this has been really enlightening, and you’ve given me some things to think about. I

just want to thank you for taking the time.

Rebecca Day:

You’re welcome. Thank you so much for having me.

Sarah Taylor:

It’s been fantastic. Thank you so much, and I will make sure that I link your website into the show

notes, and hopefully, you don’t get too much more busy, but yes. Thank you for supporting our

community.

Rebecca Day:

Yeah. No, if anyone needs to reach out for some advice. That’s always welcome. It’s always good

to hear from people, and the aim is for this type of support to become really normal and

standard practice within our industry, so the more we’re talking about it, the more we’re

reaching out, and the more support I can provide for people, the better, really. This is just the

beginning of it. So..Yeah.

Sarah Taylor:

Awesome. Well, thank you so much.

Rebecca Day:

Thanks for having me. It was really nice to talk.

Sarah Taylor:

Thanks so much for joining us today, and a big thank you goes to Rebecca for sharing such

wonderful information. If you would like to learn more about Rebecca, head to her website at

www.filminmind.co.uk. Another great resource here in Canada is called Calltime: Mental Health.

The site has a learning center where you can take online courses about mental health as well as

many resources. Links to help with general mental health, depression, anxiety, sleep, alcohol and

addiction, suicide, and BiPOC and LGBTQ+ resources. There’s loads of information. Just head to

calltimementalhealth.com. Special thanks goes to Jane MacRae. The main title sound design was

created by Jane Tattersall, additional ADR recording by Andrea Rusch. Original music provided by

Chad Blain. This episode was mixed and mastered by Tony Bao.

The CCE has been supporting Indspire – an organization that provides funding and scholarships to

Indigenous post secondary students. We have a permanent portal on our website at cceditors.ca

or you can donate directly at indspire.ca. The CCE is taking steps to build a more equitable

ecosystem within our industry and we encourage our members to participate in any way they

can.

If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends

to tune in. ?Til next time I’m your host Sarah Taylor.

[Outtro]

The CCE is a non-profit organization with the goal of bettering the art and science of picture

editing. If you wish to become a CCE member please visit our website www.cceditors.ca. Join our

great community of Canadian editors for more related info.

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Animé, produit et monté par

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The Editors Cut

Episode 043: In Conversation with Jeremy Harty, CCE & Cory Bowles on the film Black Cop

he Editors Cut - Episode 043

Episode 43: In Conversation with Jeremy Harty, CCE & Cory Bowles on the film Black Cop

This episode is the online master series that took place on July 21st, 2020.

This episode was generously Sponsored by Filet Production Services & Annex Pro/Avid

The Editors Cut - Episode 043 - Black Cop group photo

The CCE partnered with BiPOC TV and film to bring you In Conversation with Jeremy Harty, CCE and Cory Bowles about the movie Black Cop. On its release in 2017, Black Cop garnered critical acclaim as an unapologetic challenge of race and police. With a range of visuals from body cam to camera phones – dash cam to traditional camera work, Black Cop made use of multiple techniques to bring a fast paced hyper connected narrative to life. Edited by Jeremy Harty, CCE and was the directorial debut for Cory Bowles. 

This event was moderated by Shonna Foster.

Écoutez maintenant

Sarah Taylor:

This episode was generously sponsored by Filet Production Services and Annex Pro Avid. Hello and welcome to the Editor’s Cut. I’m your host Sarah Taylor. We would like to point out that the lands on which we have created this podcast and that many of you may be listening to us from are part of ancestral territory. It is important for all of us to deeply acknowledge that we are on ancestral territory that has long served as a place where indigenous peoples have lived, met, and interacted.

Sarah Taylor:

We honor, respect, and recognize these nations that have never relinquished their rights or sovereign authority over the lands and waters on which we stand today. We encourage you to reflect on the history of the land, the rich culture, the many contributions, and the concerns that impact indigenous individuals and communities. Land acknowledgements are the start to a deeper action.

Sarah Taylor:

Today’s episode is the online master series that took place on July 21st, 2020. CCE partnered with BIPOC TV and Film to bring you in conversation with Jeremy Harty CCE and Cory Bowles about the movie Black Cop. On its release in 2017, Black Cop garnered critical acclaim as an unapologetic challenge of race and police. With a range of visuals from body cam to camera phones, cam dash, to traditional camera work, Black Cop made use of multiple techniques to bring a fast-paced hyper-connected narrative to life.

Sarah Taylor:

Black Cop was edited by Jeremy Harty CCE. It was the directorial debut for Cory Bowles. This panel was moderated by Shonna Foster.

[show open]

Shonna Foster:

Thank you, everybody, for joining us today. Of course thank you, Cory and Jeremy and the CCE for hosting this. I’m very excited. It’s my first time moderating something. See how it goes.

Jeremy Harty:
My first time attending one, so.

Shonna Foster:

Excellent. We’re in the same boat, Jeremy. I guess I’m going to assume maybe that everybody’s watched the movie, but for those who haven’t, my little spiel about Black Cop is it’s a film which explores racial profiling and police violence through its main character Black Cop played beautifully by Ronnie Rowe, who goes through an entire work shift interacting with people and choosing to treat white civilians that he encounters the way that black people are often treated by the police.

Shonna Foster:

The film incorporates archival footage, as well as dash cam, body cam, and cell phone footage to tell the story almost entirely from the POV of Black Cop. What I most appreciate about this film is how

unapologetic it is and how it’s strategic and unconventional in the way that it handles insular moments of Black Cop. Just a black man, in general, moving to the world, whether he’s in uniform or not.

Shonna Foster:

I love that Black Cop truly takes up the space in this film, and that it’s us, like we’re invited to live in his head and in his car and in his space and experience his life through his own vantage point as we go on this journey with him. I guess we can start there, a kind of two-part question. So a lot of the film is internal dialogue and monologue. Those are several moments where he’s speaking directly to camera and I guess I would like to know what challenges did this present in the editing process?

Shonna Foster:

In discussing that, did you craft the story around the running monologue when you were in the cutting room and how did that all go down?

Jeremy Harty:

Really, this is Cory’s vision, so I went with his lead. There were times where we were doing little bits and messing around on certain sections, because he had a copy of all the footage and I had a copy of all the footage. We came to certain things that maybe my perspective being a white male, being out of the process I could ask him things, because I haven’t lived the life of a black person in these troubling times and stuff. I had to like fall back on him.

Jeremy Harty:

I’d like to think, maybe, that sometimes I could bring a different perspective to certain things too. It was a good collaboration though, I think. I’m not really great at answering questions, because I don’t get out much. I stay here behind my desk and I’ve got a wall of monitors here and a desk that rises, so when people come in the room they can’t see me and this is new for me.

Cory Bowles:
That’s true about the wall. There’s a wall just behind you.

Jeremy Harty: Yeah.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. It was a really good collaborative process. I find it when I’ll explain certain things to Jeremy and I have a hard time articulating exactly what it is that I want. So, a lot of times we’ll play around and he might say, “Well, why don’t you show me kind of what you want with an edit?” Then, he’ll take it and sort of tighten it, flip it, turn it, give me some things, and then I find a lot of the discovery of the piece, obviously, for anyone that’s interested in making films, a lot of the movie is built, that’s your third part, basically, your edit is making sometimes a whole new movie.

Cory Bowles:

So, with this one it’s always surprising and we really push each other to get something new. It always changes as well, because we had such good performances by Ronnie, we were like, “How do we

enhance his performance and pull it out even more?” It can get frustrating, because you have all these great options when you have-

Jeremy Harty:

A lot of great options. This is the first dramatic piece that I’ve done that’s been this long, and seeing Ronnie on camera and seeing all the dailies and stuff, it was really nice to have the options that we had. Even when he’s not speaking his face is just speaking volumes. He’s just got that presence of him. It’s really strong, really strong. Amazing casting, so lucky to get him. But Cory has that ability of… He’s worked with enough different people in all the aspects of his life that he can bring them in when he has a project and this was the big first one. Hopefully, not the last.

Shonna Foster:

Not at all. Off that note, Jeremy, so Cory, he described your relationship as one where you both push each other as much as you can in the process. He shared with me that you are a cinephile who will often use references from classic movies to inform your process, and that you also do research on films that a director likes. What were some of the references you may have used for this film and from those references, what are the elements that would have influenced cutting this film?

Jeremy Harty:

Really, Cory’s the lead for that. I like to watch a lot of different films, and basically, because I’m cutting comedy all the time, I find that watching more and more comedy, so it doesn’t really relate to this, but when Cory says, “Okay. There’s this film, there’s this scene that I’d like to talk about. They did this and that film.”

Jeremy Harty:

I would go with him and whatever library of stuff he was talking about, I tried to watch them all again just to get a refresher of what’s going on. There’s so many things you can cherry pick little bits from other films that are out there and stuff. I really just look to him for that kind of stuff.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, I like to noodle things in the suite and mess around. I’m trying not to curse here. I tend to curse like a sailor. But I’m pulling it back as best possible. There’s certain things… One memory I have is I was listening to different songs on iTunes one day while I was cutting and looking through dailies and stuff, and a song was recommended in my iTunes list, and I really gravitated towards it.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, I played it to Cory and he was like… You should tell the story, man, because you got the connection there.

Shonna Foster: Yeah.

Cory Bowles:
Which one is it? You had a lot of songs lined-

Jeremy Harty:
Well, it’s the Zeal & Ardor stuff.

Cory Bowles:
Oh, yeah. Well, I loved Zeal & Ardor too. It was like-

Jeremy Harty:

But I’ve never known about them that like from you and I just heard them by chance in my iTunes stream.

Cory Bowles:

Right. Yeah. They ended up basically almost soundtracking the whole movie. I just reached out to them and asked if I could use a song, and then Aaron took over, our producer, and was like, “Let’s get a jam.” All of a sudden we had… His whole album was ours for free almost. I think we made them take money from us. They were giving it to us for free.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. I guess was that [inaudible 00:08:00]. I mean there’s so many music stories, I didn?t even know that one. I just remember when you were throwing me like beans and cornbread, some other tunes like-

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. Well, how did I get that in my head? I don’t know. It’s been a while like the Zeal & Ardor stuff is really what struck me, and then we’ve had… There were other sections that we tried some of their other songs and they stuck into. Then, you had some other songs that you were working on because you write and you do your own stuff too.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. It’s funny because I remember going after Charles Bradley song for the very first part. It was how long for the… I remember not being able to let go of that song. I remember calling up, at that time, we were so excited, because we were just calling up people out of the blue and being like, “Can we use your songs?” Explain in the thing.

Cory Bowles:

People are like, “Yeah. Sure, man.” Publishing is going to be cool with it. If anyone makes a movie, and it’s really hard to secure music. We didn’t have the time or the money to actually like… We had a music supervised. We didn’t really have the time or money to go through these insane label contracts. We were just like, “Look, can you like… We will give you kit back, whatever you need, but can we use the song?” I remember that how long song at the beginning, I was so married to it-

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. You had it in the cut for a while, man. You were like not letting go. You’re like, “Oh, we’re going to get it. We’re going to get it.”

Cory Bowles:

Then, they-

Jeremy Harty:
Let’s have an alternate.

Cory Bowles:

… they stayed shape. They’re like, “Yeah. We want 35k for the song.” I was like, “Well, that’s more than my lead actor is going to make and that’s like one third-“

Jeremy Harty:
That’s more than the post budget.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. He’s like, “[inaudible 00:09:30] part of my movie?” I was like, “Take a hike, man. Give it to us for free if you’re going to be like that much. I’ll give you some…” They were like, no. Then, I was… Zeal & Ardor to the rescue. It actually ended up being a stronger song with black spiritual death metal. It was really nice. It’s always fun when we lay music in to tracks. We always experiment quite a bit.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. Like in the workout scene, just like changing the cuts a few frames here to land on certain beats and stuff like that. Sometimes I’m not 100% sure whether or not my system is perfectly in sync. I’m looking to Cory saying, “Does that seem like bang on to the beat for you and, or on the offbeat?”

Jeremy Harty:

I’m not musically inclined, but Cory was like, “Dude, you got that on the offbeat.” I’m like, “I don’t know what the heck you’re talking about, man. I just cut it because it kind of worked for me. That’s it.” But that was a fun scene. Yeah. I also have a copy of the film here if you want me to pull up anything too, Cory. We can show people or two.

Cory Bowles:
Oh, yeah. Oh, you know what? If you want to show the workout scene, that’s great.

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah. We can show anything, man.

Shonna Foster:
We could show the whole movie.

Cory Bowles:

This was right after he gets profiled. So, this is like the sort of triggering incident in the movie where a Black Cop gets profiled, if anyone hasn’t seen it. Then, after he stands for… We have a two-minute scene where he’s just standing and he’s recollecting, and it’s everything coming to a head, and then the next scene we show him venting out his energy and we put it on…

Cory Bowles:

Actually, the first song we got for Zeal & Ardor, which is the Devil is Fine. Which we even named our company after the song. Yeah. This was a fun one to cut and play music to. It was a really strong scene.

Jeremy Harty:
I have it kind of queued up here.

Speaker 12:
[crosstalk 00:11:14] (singing)

Speaker 13:
My dad used to say that a change in attitude is due to blacks-

Shonna Foster:
Can we talk a little bit about the scene before the one going, the one where he gets profiled?

Jeremy Harty: Yeah.

Shonna Foster:

Can you talk a little bit about cutting that process? What’s very interesting about this scene is you don’t really see the cops who… We never see the cops who stop him in full, and can you talk a little bit about that choice and what it was like cutting that? Because there’s focus on elements of them, but we never get to experience who those men are, we’re really focused on just Black Cop himself, and so how did you choose, Cory, the things you were going to focus on in that scene?

Cory Bowles: Okay.

Shonna Foster:
Like hands and radios and these sorts of things.

Cory Bowles:

Sure. That whole scene is an example of the collaboration of the whole team. I had a certain way that I knew what I wanted going into that scene, and the main thing I wanted was to focus on his confusion, the frustration, the fear, and what it’s like in that moment and how where someone is like, “Oh, you’re just being pulled over by the police.”

Cory Bowles:

It’s like, no, what’s really happening to you at that moment and what’s that, so many things. So my original way I wanted to shoot it was just basically never seeing the cops. I always just wanted to keep it on him. I wanted to do the thing where I pushed in close. The cinematographer, Jeff Wheaton, who had come with this scene. We need to do really extreme close-ups. We need really hard stuff.

Cory Bowles:

He’s like, “I want to slow down the frames. I want to like really pop in.” Then, we were able to sort of… Once I knew what he was trying to interpret, I was like, “Okay. We went with him and we just played that night.” It was a lot of times where I’d be like never put this person in focus. We’d be like pop into the mouth, get the car.

Cory Bowles:

Then, I think we ran the scene quite a long time. It was really challenging. When it came time to cut, that’s where it was like, “Okay. We’re going to from a nice free scene into something really claustrophobic and something panicky.” We played with that, actually, in different cities. Yeah. We spent a long time-

Jeremy Harty:
There was a lot on that one. Yeah.

Cory Bowles:

It might have been the first scene, the first actual thing we really spent time on cutting in the movie, I think, when I went to Calgary.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. That was one of those scenes that kept on getting reworked, because there was certain elements that we’re just missing the focus here or you want to make the tension a little bit more, so you want to use this shot and insert something else. Man, I just remember the last shot of him just putting the earbuds on. That was a conversation you and I had a lot of times about keeping that one shot for the whole way.

Jeremy Harty:

I was like, “No, man. It’s killing me. It’s strong. But it’s like so much time where nothing really changed.” That’s a different decision that really pays off when you’re in the theater. The uncomfortable silence and awkwardness of that long shot, but I had digitally pushed in on parts of it, try to change it up, try to jump cut parts just so that one shot, the top of that whole scene is like mostly Cory coming back with a note here.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, we try something else or trim a few frames here and there. There’s a lot of messing with frames just to get it where it is now I guess.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. I learned a lot. I learned so much just on that scene alone. I still have the old cut of it and comparing to what I built and was like, “Here, I want something like this.” I’m looking at it now I’m like, “Oh, my god. I should never make a movie again.”

Jeremy Harty:
No. It’s a team effort, man. It’s a team effort.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. For anyone watching the long scene, if you haven’t seen what Jeremy’s talking about, it’s after the profiling scene which is tension, tension, tension. We just have a shot where we linger on him and it’s the aftermath of the scene, and we hang there close to… Almost two and a half minutes. We just use a build of music and Ronnie’s acting, he made a choice.

Cory Bowles:

I said, “Take your time with what you want to do in this.” He took his time. He played it real. He didn’t do what I was expecting to do, which I thought he was going to freak out or something or do some sort of… He went so far away from that, that it was actually perfect, and that scene that we did, there was a lot of big debate on it.

Cory Bowles:

It was one of those things where it was so real and raw, I didn’t want to change it, but I was really scared. I remember being worried about that shot, because I was like, “How are people going to watch this for two minutes?” But then the reactions came in and Chicago, there were some men crying during that scene because they had that experience as well. That’s when I was like, “Okay. We made the right choice.” It was a risk, like Jeremy said that paid off.

Jeremy Harty:

That’s an example of what I was saying earlier where I don’t have those experiences, so I have to fall back on Cory for that to really understand how impactful that will be to the black community or people that have been racially profiled, because I’m a white male. I’ve been blessed in that regard. I just haven’t had to deal with that, but that long awkwardness and his brain just processing what just happened.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, he just kind of like switches and jogs off, but then, obviously, it’s still affecting him because that’s the rest of the whole film, right?

Shonna Foster:
Jeremy, do you go on set?

Jeremy Harty:
Did I go on set? Yeah.

Shonna Foster:
Do you go on every day?

Jeremy Harty:

Ah, no. Not every day. I think I was still working on this other show at one point. I can’t remember, but they were shooting in my neighborhood because Halifax is relatively small. I think I walked down from my house, one or two days on set and just checking it out, make sure they’re going to get it all. Like I have any power there, but I did it. Show the team that we’re in it together, because most people don’t see the editor, right?

Shonna Foster:

Cory, do you guys work in that you’ll take the pass, and then Cory will give notes or are you in the room together in the end? Can you talk a little bit about your process, how you work together?

Jeremy Harty:
It’s kind of all of it, right?

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. I think there’s a question here that is on that vein as well.

Jeremy Harty:

Yes. Cory was in the edit suite sitting like two feet from me. That’s not going to happen now with COVID. We were working, and then at some points he was working wherever he was traveling around the world doing his thing. I was locked here in my little room and sending files back and forth. I’d tweak a scene or whatever, send it off to him see what he thought. Got his notes, take another crack at it and stuff, and then he’d come in and we…

Jeremy Harty:
Did we sit and watch the whole thing a few times here in Halifax?

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. By the building when I watched cuts, so I remember pacing and Jeremy’s all being like, “It’s going to be fine and-“

Jeremy Harty:
Cory is like that in general though. He’s got energy that I just don’t have, so.

Cory Bowles:

Well, I’ll tell you with Jeremy, as a director, I will say I’m really, really fortunate because most directors want to be involved in the edit, for sure. I want to be right in there, but you have to give trust to your editor as well. He presents you something, he always has to explain to me like… I always have to explain to other people when I’m mentoring at CFC or something. It’s like, “Never worry about your first cut.” Because he’s like, “This is just an assembly pen. This is to show you what you have and we’re going to work through from there.”

Cory Bowles:

A lot of times what I find Jeremy does, which is a natural thing that I don’t really get from another editor is that he’ll say, “Why don’t you have a crack at cutting the scene?” It’s not judgmental on how I’ll cut it, because I cut it terribly. I don’t know how to use the software so good and I’ll send it back and he’ll be like, “Okay. Let’s now let’s tweak it. Let’s work it.” Me takes that and adds in something, and then we really start to cook. A lot of times by him allowing me that freedom to sort of explain what I’m looking for, really helps, because a lot of times as directors, we can’t articulate like an editor.

Cory Bowles:

We can think about the edit, but to actually specifically articulate something to someone, and then someone to present it back to you, you can get locked in just sitting down and going, “Well, I’ll settle for it because I don’t know.” But Jeremy’s always like, “What do you want?” Let’s look at what you want and let’s see what you can play with. I really appreciate [crosstalk 00:20:28]

Jeremy Harty:

Thanks, man. But it’s really hard… I can relate. It’s hard to convey a thought sometimes, just articulating it with words. I really enjoy the process of just noodling stuff, throwing it around, and if Cory has the same access to the same footage as I do, and he can put it in an order that I haven’t thought of, why would I get upset, right?

Jeremy Harty:

It’s his project. It’s his vision. I’m there to help with other stages that maybe he has some difficulty with, and at the end of the day, it is a team effort. If he comes away after cutting something feeling self-conscious about it and I go, “No. No, man. That worked.”

Jeremy Harty:

But I have the same problem too. There’s scenes I cut and I was like, “I don’t know about this, man.” He goes, “No. It’s great.” Or that, “No. That’s it. That’s it.” Then, we work from there.

Jeremy Harty:

Another thing that we did was he shot a lot of little stuff in the black box, the mic drop is what I’m thinking of Cory. You had the footage of the mic being picked up, him using the mic, dropping the mic. I think at one stage, it wasn’t fully finished. It just didn’t feel like it was its own thing. Then, I was like, “What if he dropped the mic?” Correct me if I’m wrong because I’m going by memory and it’s a little ways ago. I’ve had kids since then and all sorts of stuff, brain just gets mushy at some point.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. You were talking about when you move the mic scene around.

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah. Because we tried to like bookend that into the film its own way.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. Well, I mean you did that a lot. You did a lot of little things that really sort of popped. I mean some of the other things too was I’m really about having a lot of space in the scene. I want to have space and I want to have time and I want to have beats, but we also have to keep the scene moving. I found that I would…

Cory Bowles:

This is where things I don’t know as the directors are so good at going, “Okay. We could keep your space, but we can tighten up this.” We like to work on an intensity graph through a scene that kind of has ups and downs and a lot of slopes in it and I find that I can cut a sort of dynamic scene, but the meat’s not there and that’s where when we get together and we start digging things and Jeremy will

suggest something, move something around and we solved a lot of problems in the edit room, because the other thing about shooting a movie like this, and Andrew to your question about spending time.

Cory Bowles:

I spend a lot of time as much as I can with Jeremy, and it’s so exciting when you go away from a room and you see us, you get something back. That’s like one of the… Regardless if it’s good, it’s just exciting to get something back, because you live with it and it’s daunting. It’s really hard, but I find… I was going to say one thing that happens when we play, we solve a lot of problems in the set that we… There’s a lot of things that aren’t necessarily going to work in the movie and you have to build it from scratch in the edit.

Cory Bowles:

That’s what I think we do. We’ve always done well together was create things when we just had no scene at all, like nothing was going to work and we made it work.

Jeremy Harty:

There are still examples of things where, because it was only shot within what? 12 days. There was one shot I was like I really wish we had, but we just didn’t have the opportunity of when a white cop gets his uniform taken, you remember that, Cory? I was like-

Cory Bowles: I sure do.

Jeremy Harty:

I just want to see him in the garbage naked or in his underwear, whatever, but I just wanted to see that visual. We just… One, you’re asking a lot for the actor to do that, and the time frame to do that and would it have been the best use of our time to get that one shot or to go out and shoot an insert or whatever? But, yeah, you can get bogged down by those kind of wish lists, but then you start thinking of other things to help solve that problem. That’s one of the reasons why I like editing, because you really do get to shaped the whole film. I also color correct. We’re tweaking stuff and trying to make things punch and fix issues.

Cory Bowles:

What did we have for the first kind of the movie was like, an hour? Like 66 minutes or something like that, right?

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah. One shortcut and it was like, “What else is going to go in this film, Cory? I don’t know…” But you-

Cory Bowles:
I was like, “My career is over.”

Jeremy Harty:

No. But that was a problem solving… You had to solve that problem, so you were forced into it. You already had the idea of having the radio through stuff, but then some of the narration, some of the black box stuff, doing a little montage helps pepper that in throughout and it helps too.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, those cards with the white text, you had two or three different versions, different quotes, at one point it’s like, “No. We can’t go with that quote. We’re going with this quote.” I’m like, “All right. Does that work now or does that make it better? I’m lost. I don’t know anymore.” Spending so much time in the edit suite too, at some point, I could see Cory’s point about being away from the edit, coming back and seeing something that’s like fresh eyes.

Jeremy Harty:

I think that’s important too. We did have a little break here and there where we were busy with other things, and then came back to finishing Black Cop or working on another scene or-

Shonna Foster:

I know the film started as a short. Cory, did you make it with the intent to make it into a feature? Did you know making the short that you were going to make a feature film?

Cory Bowles:

Yes and no. Originally, I conceived it as a feature back in 2014 maybe, and then I did the short in 2015. I kind of just thought that was it. It was a very… But the thing I was like, “I need to do now.” I think I went and shot it at a weekend that we were doing [inaudible 00:26:01] boys went home, shot it, and then grabbed the GoPro.

Cory Bowles:

I think it was the following year, coming through the following year when I figured… I was actually told by a few people that, and a friend of mine, Nelson, Nelson McDonald who said, “Yo, I think they should be actually expanded. So if you know what you think you want to say.” Because I talked about it. I talked about the character and why he did what he did in the short film.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. It kind of came back around to the feature, but I didn’t expect it. It was kind of an unexpected thing to happen. Suddenly, I was paired up with Aaron and we were going to write a movie… I was going to write this film, we were going to go after it, and suddenly, we were doing it. I had another project that I was trying to do too, actually, and then this one just swept everything else away.

Shonna Foster:
Yes. Is your project’s still going to get made?

Jeremy Harty:
I’m hoping these projects get made. Maybe I can hang out with him again. I don’t know.

Shonna Foster:

I’m going to pull a question from the Q&A. Did you have test screenings with friends and family and crew before picture lock?

Jeremy Harty:
I think there were quite a few people watching it, weren’t there?

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. We are like a tight-knit group. I’m really afraid of that. This is going to sound really funny, but I only showed it to, personally, myself. I only showed it to a few people. I tend to not believe what my team says, and that’s not that I don’t trust them. It’s like Aaron, the producer is like, “It’s looking good.” I’m like, “You’re lying.” I don’t like-

Jeremy Harty: He does say that.

Cory Bowles:

I shout to my partner or you show it to a couple of close friends. I think I showed it to my friend, Mark Claremo. I sent it to Clark Johnson as well, but that’s generally about it. Mostly because I’m really afraid of it. So, even like I’m so afraid to do it. I don’t want to know. I don’t care if they show it, but I’m like I don’t-

Jeremy Harty:

I’m a little different with my assistant editors or people I’m working with in the building. I’ll show them scenes, but I won’t show them the whole thing, mostly because we’re not there yet, and when we were close to picture lock, I don’t know if I showed them the whole film then, because there’s still things that were going to be worked out or the color timing would be done.

Jeremy Harty:

I felt strongly that if we had too much input from people who weren’t in the whole part of the process, it might get watered down or there might be weird notes that come out of nowhere. Dealing with broadcasters, and then broadcaster goes, “Yeah. Do you have any takes where they say these lines?” You’re like, “What do you mean these lines? Like now? We’ve already locked the picture. Like you want to rework a whole scene? No. We don’t.” That’s what we got to work with so… That’s the fear that I have by bringing in a bunch of people and saying, “Okay.”

Jeremy Harty:

They’ll watch the cut, and then they’ll be like, “Yeah. What if you had this shot? What if you had that shot?” This a small budget, 12-day shoot, and this is what we got. We’re making it work and it worked with this one I think.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. I’m of two minds of that. I think in some cases you need to have test screenings and you need to do those things, but in some cases when you’re doing a project that’s like, it’s you’re doing a different thing, you’re doing something that’s like… In one case, it was like, “We really couldn’t care. We had to actually be like…” It just has to be really good, it has to flow well and it has to be honest.

Cory Bowles:

We tried to stay away from anything that was like, “Well, this doesn’t work because the rule is…” Sometimes, if you get into too much of that type of viewing, that people don’t understand rules. We were doing something that, at the time, we were like, “We don’t want this to be conventional in any way. We just want you to be affected by it when you see it.”

Cory Bowles:
It’s a challenge, but I do believe in testing. Just that was a tough one for me. I’d give-

Jeremy Harty: [crosstalk 00:29:45]

Cory Bowles:
It was so hard to even hit the send button when I showed someone the link.

Shonna Foster:

It does seem like a challenge though because the film is unconventional, because you both seem to work that way. Navigating notes from producers, how do you go about that when you’re getting… Did you get a lot of notes back from producers as you were going and-

Jeremy Harty:

We got notes. I get notes from a co-worker, and then I found myself saying, “Well, you’re not really seeing it from Cory’s perspective, right? It was the confrontation, the Skittle scene or however you want to refer to it with the big fence that shot. There were a lot of people in my shop they were like, “That shot so long.”

Jeremy Harty:

I was like, “Oh…” That’s why I did other versions, because I was so listening to them, and at some point I just had to step back and go like, “You got to trust Cory and Ronnie. That they did that shot, they want that length, and everyone else their perspective is valid, but we have to push something.

Jeremy Harty:

To me, that’s one of those shots that’s really pushing that urge of an editor to cut. There’s some people that just cut every three seconds. It doesn’t matter. It’s like cutting cut, cut, cut, angle, angle, angle, angle, angle. And to fight those urges of just cutting the shot, it’s hard. It’s a hard thing to do. Trusting the process and getting people’s notes is important.

Jeremy Harty:

I want to know why I have to defend it sometimes, but then with this project, I’m kind of just along for the ride with Cory.

Cory Bowles:
Oh, stop. That’s funny. Because I trust so much of what he does… But I’ll tell you on top of that-

Jeremy Harty:
We got so much history too. That’s probably why. We’ve known each other since ’99, ’98, ’99.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah, and we had on top of that, we have one producer with Aaron. Aaron was always in the room, but Aaron as producer was totally like, he totally trusted us too. He’s just like, “Yeah. I think this…” Any time he did give a note, it was… It’s like one of those things where you… He’s like that player, you bring him to take the shot right at the buzzer who knows that they’re going to hit the shot at the buzzer.

Cory Bowles:

He’s one of those note givers. He drops the note when the note really needs to be given. It’s usually one that’s just like… For example, in that scene that we did in the fence, his note… I was ready to, because we had to send it off to Tiff, because we’ve been in at that time, but we had to give them the actual version.

Cory Bowles:

I wasn’t happy with the music we’d scored. We’ve done the improv score with the band. I just threw a piece in and Aaron had said, “I don’t think you’re happy.” I was like, “It doesn’t matter if I’m happy, we have to get it.” He goes, “Well, you’re not happy and this isn’t what you said you want to do.”

Cory Bowles:

I was like, “What am I supposed to do?” Then, he goes, “You’ll figure it out.” He left. [inaudible 00:32:30] I’m so mad. I was just like I wanted to go hit him. I was so angry I was like, “I can’t do this. We’re never going to do it in time.” Then, I ended up taking two pieces of different versions of the same song, flipping them, making stuff go backwards. I put up a mic and started doing my own vocal things in it.

Cory Bowles:

Then, I came back and he comes and listens. I show him the scene. He just goes like this. He’s like, “Yeah.”

Jeremy Harty:

Why didn?t it occur to me why you did the reaction? No one wants to see me watching you do the reaction.

Cory Bowles:
Oh, sorry. Anyway-

Jeremy Harty:
That’s bad editing right there.

Cory Bowles:

[crosstalk 00:33:02] you just did a head nod, but those notes, he would give us both. He was really trusting. It’s really important.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. He’s in the building where I am and I’ve been cutting and stuff. He could drop in any time. See what I’m working on, and see what it is. I could go to him and say, “Okay. I’ve retackled this. What do you think?” We’re not really hung up on a power struggle or anything, which is good. I think there’s too many people that get bogged down by that, and that’s the really great thing that Aaron brought to the project.

Jeremy Harty:
Ego could just put you in such a bad place. I don’t want to have a big ego, but I do sometimes.

Shonna Foster:

I’m going to pull another question from the Q&A. How did you time the scene where the student is in the distance and Black Cop shoots him with his finger as a gun? Very good question.

Jeremy Harty:
I was not on set that day so I don’t know how it was done, but I suspect I do know how it was done.

Shonna Foster: Share your secrets.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. That’s my dance background, timing, rhythm, and two really good actors with experience on stage and experience in blocking and timing where I could say, “Hey, you’re going to take… You’re going to run till you get to there.” Ronnie’s going to watch him go. He’s going to take a deep breath and shoot.

Cory Bowles:

That was sort of a thing that they were pretty linked up and you can, they felt it. We just ran it. They nailed it, and yeah. There was no sound effects or anything like that. It was one of those things where you… It’s so hard to say to an actor like when you get around this area, you have to feel like when you get hit.

Cory Bowles:

Then, the person shooting the person in the back, but they were on the same wavelength. That’s very much how dancers work, right? Dancers work with instincts and trying to feel each other’s time as you spread out. They just nailed that. Lots of rhythm. I like to work with-

Jeremy Harty:
I thought you had someone out on the side just waving them down to fall like an AD?

Cory Bowles: No.

Jeremy Harty:
You didn’t yell behind camera, fall?

Cory Bowles: No.

Jeremy Harty: No?

Cory Bowles: No.

Jeremy Harty: No?

Cory Bowles: No.

Jeremy Harty:
All right. That was what I was guessing.

Cory Bowles:

To be authentic you got… I mean sometimes if we were in TV, we would have to and AD would come over and be like, “Nope. You’re doing it this way. I have someone here. They’re going to get queued. Go back to the monitor. See you later.” Like by that. No. For this it was just the whole movie is as organic as possible, so.

Jeremy Harty:
What was the crew size? How many people were on the crew? I put you on the spot there.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. I want to say 20, maybe 22 max. Yeah. Because we had two camera assists, we had two electric, we have… We basically have two of everybody, except the hair and makeup, wardrobe, there’s three, and so I would say just around 20 max maybe.

Jeremy Harty:

What gets me is with all the different camera formats too, we had to worry about frame rates, aspect ratios, all that stuff, just the file formats themselves bringing them in to the system, I can only imagine how much pain in the butt it was on set having to chase cameras, getting them all set up with a smaller crew.

Shonna Foster:
What kind of camera did you shoot with?

Jeremy Harty: FS7, wasn’t it?

Cory Bowles: Yeah.

Jeremy Harty: Yeah. Sony FS7.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. Then, GoPros. GoPro Hero. Was the Hero 5 or 4?

Jeremy Harty:
I think it was 4 at that time. Yeah.

Cory Bowles:
Hero 4 and my iPhone.

Jeremy Harty: iPhone.

Cory Bowles: Yeah.

Jeremy Harty:
Did you have like a Samsung in there too or some other phone?

Cory Bowles:

No. I don’t think I used the… I thought I’d just use my phone. I might use something else, but, yeah, I think just those three. Then, yeah, the GoPros were all the dash cams as well.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. We tried to muddy up some of them to look a little bit different even though they were shot on some of the same cameras.

Shonna Foster:
I have a question for Jeremy.

Jeremy Harty: Oh, no.

Shonna Foster:
Did you go to film school?

Jeremy Harty:

I went to a community college taking radio and television broadcasting for two years. I was originally going to be in radio production. I was going to do commercials on tape to tape. That was my plan. Then, I asked one of the guys working at the local radio station how much they made per year, how long he’d been there. At that time he was there for maybe 15 years and he was making 38,000 a year. I said, “Okay. Screw this shit. I’m out.”

Jeremy Harty:

Luckily because of my program, we did journalism. We did radio, and we also did television. I just gravitated halfway through my first year into the television side of things, which really pissed off the radio teacher, because he thought he had another radio convert early on in the process, because that’s how I came into the program.

Jeremy Harty:

I’m just one of those guys with a blessed mind for tech. I started learning all the tapes and the systems. We had a non-linear system. It was a light wave I believe. It was just after the EditDroid. It was on an Amiga. It was cumbersome. Painful as hell, but it was dead when I got to the school and we resurrected it when I was there.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, I never used it because it sucked. I just really enjoyed the creative side of editing, taking different footage. One of my major projects I got a bad mark on, but I loved it. I took a song by Stone Temple Pilots to Return of the Jedi. It’s the song Tumble in the Rough. I took that song that was cutting it to the walkers being crushed. Oh, so cheesy. I wish I had it soon.

Shonna Foster: Okay.

Cory Bowles:
This is pre YouTube, so that’s the stuff now that will get like [crosstalk 00:38:31]-

Jeremy Harty:

Oh, god. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I’d probably have 100 million easy, easy views on that, right? Probably had some take down notices. Probably would have put it up somewhere else, still got another 100 million. Would have been DMCA, got in trouble for that I’m sure, but that’s when I really thought, “Okay. Audio editing was great in a sense, but video editing is so much more, because you have audio, you have picture, just twice as good.” That’s how I got into working in the biz.

Shonna Foster:

In biz, and what advice would you have for any upcoming editors and now everything’s digital and software and things can be very expensive, and so what are some tools that you use?

Jeremy Harty:

Oh, now is amazing. Now’s an amazing time, because you can get the DaVinci Resolve for free. You can edit, you can color correct, you can do some special effects and some audio editing in there too. If you were starting out and you’re in high school or junior high or something like that, if you got like an AV

Club or something extracurricular that you can do like that, you should watch as many movies and TV shows as you can get your hands on.

Jeremy Harty:

You got to watch some of the really bad stuff to realize what not to do sometimes, but try to watch the really classic stuff, so that you can really appreciate and get into that mindset, but with YouTube and all the other platforms of people offering tutorials on everything out there. I would kill, kill to be starting my career at this point being much younger because there’s just so much more to learn.

Jeremy Harty:

Film school is good for certain people. I don’t know if I could gone through film school and be where I am now. I think I’m one of those people that has to do it, has to have my hands on, and suffering through it, and working long hours, and getting punched in the arm when the director wants me to make an edit. That’s not Cory. That was another director I worked with early on in my career.

Jeremy Harty:

Every time he wanted me to cut was [inaudible 00:40:26] right in the arm. You have to go through that stuff. I think that will shape you into it, but don’t be afraid to work long hours and research and watch as much as you can.

Shonna Foster:
A question from Andrea. What is your preferred editing platform?

Jeremy Harty:

I use Final Cut Pro. I’ve used it since it was beta. Before that, I used the Media 100. Oh, my god. That was painful. We only had two tracks of video and a graphics track and we used to cheat the graphics track to be a third layer of video by exporting all our footage, and then re-importing it and putting it in this graphics, but then when I made the move to Final Cut, it was the beta version and I’ve been on Final Cut or Final Cut X ever since.

Jeremy Harty:

Now, I’ve dabbled in Avid and Touched Premiere. When we finish our shows, we generally use DaVinci Resolve to do the final color and send it back to Final Cut for our export and our mastering.

Cory Bowles:
Andrea, he is a Final Cut snob.

Jeremy Harty: I am.

Cory Bowles:

I mean it in the sense that when the Final Cut came out and it was like a glorified iMovie. He was raving about it and I was like, “Yo, man. This is kind of like what’s up?”

Jeremy Harty: Whack.

Cory Bowles:

[crosstalk 00:41:34] taking the old Final Cut style and this is awesome. He was just like not having it. He’s like basically Final Cut could have been just like… It just could have been like one [inaudible 00:41:45] it would be okay. He’d be like Final Cut, he’d find the… He would find the positive in it.

Jeremy Harty:
I’m a Mac snob what it really comes down to, so, just straight up Mac snob.

Cory Bowles:
He taught me how to use the new Final Cut very well.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. I suffered greatly when they switched from Final Cut 7 into Final Cut X. I was doing a short film and I was trying to do all these multi-layer stuff and it was crashing, and then I was just… But I found that having a project to do in it, I learned it, and if I was forced to use another software, I’d just be like, “Oh, I want to go back to Final Cut,” because it’s what I know.

Jeremy Harty:

What it comes down to is go with the tool that you feel strongest in, but be aware of the other tools, because they all have their advantages and disadvantages. One of the things I really like about the Final Cut is being able to create roles where you assign different things, and when I go to output, I can output five or six different versions of the same timeline with just a few keystrokes.

Jeremy Harty:

It’ll do export of different files like if I had a German language and a French language on the same thing, I could do two exports. So a German one and the French one, but only have to have one timeline if you prepared your project properly and stuff. That’s why I stick with Final Cut. Sorry.

Shonna Foster:

Another question. What is your decision-making process in approaching pacing in your edit? I guess that’s for both of you actually.

Jeremy Harty:

Well, for me, I generally slap together everything dialogue based in the order of per script or whatever, and re-watch it, and then see if there’s duplicate thoughts being said or expressed, and then looking at how to pepper in the coverage over top of that. So, if I want to go to someone’s reaction and stuff. That’s how I tend to build it. Worrying about the actual script first, and then worrying about coverage and all the other angles or the timing of things, but as of late, in the last year or so, I’ve been working on Trailer Park Boys animated series.

Jeremy Harty:

It’s totally different. You do your audio cut and you send it off, and then they do the storyboards and all that stuff. It’s like four or five months later, it comes back to you and you’re like, “Oh, that’s how they drew that. Okay. Well, let’s maybe cut these lines out now that I thought I needed.” Tossed. So, different experience, but interesting. Cory, yourself?

Cory Bowles:

Oh, for me, rhythm is really important. I like to try to find a natural emotional rhythm and everything and if I can’t find it in the scene, I don’t want the scene, but if I really want the scene, I have to find the rhythm. I believe in a lot of space and a lot of time, but I don’t want anything to be sluggish.

Cory Bowles:

I guess it’s always hard to find the right balance and you kind of know… Actually, we played a lot with the pacing and there’s a scene where Black Cop is stopped by a rookie cop in the movie. We played a whole… I think we have like six different versions of that scene or just-

Jeremy Harty: Yeah. There’s a lot.

Cory Bowles:

… [crosstalk 00:44:52] what we were cutting, what we’re dragging out? What are the most tense? One of them was like snappy and one of them was like boring. One of them was like exciting and hype. Then, we were like, “Okay. Well, how do we find the right balance of each one?”

Cory Bowles:

Again, we really try to find peaks and valleys as much as possible in a scene. If something ramps up, you find the ramp up and if something is supposed to have the, just hold you there. We make sure we build it with a hole or we might pull out when you don’t want to get pulled out. It’s kind of things like that.

Cory Bowles:

On Jeremy’s other point about, it’s different in television. I get to sit on the edit, I do a lot of the edit, the Director’s Cut for Diggstown. I show I work on, Diggstown. I’m really adamant about sort of not doing a cut that the network is necessarily going to like. I always try to find and I cut it as tight as possible. I shouldn’t say this because… I cut it as tight as possible so they can’t make very many changes.

Jeremy Harty:
You just told a trade secret, man.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. Usually, you give a long cut and give it, so the producers can have their cut. I’ll cut it really tight. Then, they’ll have some things they can change, but usually the essence is there. Then, it usually shifts some… There goes my dog. I got to just pause.

Jeremy Harty:

To further Cory’s point there, there’s a thing when you’re working with a broadcaster where certain broadcasters after you’ve worked with them for a while they might trust you, but other ones you know they’re going to just need to make a note, even if it’s not a note that should be made. They just have to be part of the process.

Jeremy Harty:

You kind of have one obvious bad scene or edit or line and you kind of just leave it there for the first pass where they see it, and then that’s going to be the thing that they focus on. You go, “Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great note. We’ll take that out.” You cut it out. Then, they look like a hero.

Cory Bowles:

[inaudible 00:46:51] networks in there, but sometimes [inaudible 00:46:54] and sometimes in some cases it’s like I would try to keep a little bit there, but I also want to make sure that they hire me to direct the show and they hire me to put my touch on it. I want to make sure they get what is my touch, and if they go, “Okay. Well, this isn’t what we want.”

Cory Bowles:

Then, I’m like, “Well, then, I’ll learn what you want, but this is… I want to make sure you get the most that I can give you in an edit. I always will push, push, push as well for that.” It usually turns out well. Everyone is happy at the end. There’s some things that may work or may not, but I think that’s important to experiment there as well.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. In regards to what I was saying with the note process that I’m used to. I’m used to working on a series that has been going for so long, has the same director, and Cory’s coming from it from he’s the hired gun. You’re hiring him for his perspective. You should get his perspective. You should get what he thinks and feels is best.

Jeremy Harty:

I’ve worked with other directors on other series where that’s what they do. They do their thing, and of course, the producers and everyone else overrules them at some point and things get changed, but at least you know where that person’s come from and their vision is there, and generally you hire them because you want their vision.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. In a show like Trailer Park, I direct Trailer Park and Jeremy edits that. I’m not actually involved in the edit. I’ll shoot for the edit to give him options, but really it’s about… In that case, I’m trying to get as much dynamic and as much good material in the scene, so then they can play with everything they want.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. There’s not complaints in that regard because Cory’s been in the family or the show for so long. He knows the characters and knows the crew and everything. It just works. It’s so easy. He just walks in, bangs it all out. We’re done. Right, Cory, no pain?

Cory Bowles:

Yeah, but you’ve also given me some lectures about things that I may or may not have gotten or things that-

Jeremy Harty:

I choose not to remember those moments, but, yeah. I’m sure they’d happened. In that regard, that series, I cut in a trailer near the set. It used to be the point where I’d come out to set and everyone would go, “Oh, shit. Jeremy’s here.” Because I guess I’m just that big a dick when I come out on set or something’s gone wrong and I caught it in the suite and I’m coming out to say, “It’d be really nice if you shot a color chart or you gave us a few more seconds when you say cut, like this really sucks to be in this room over there.”

Cory Bowles:
Jeremy is known to come out to set, stand there, and then leave. If he does that, you know something

that like… Everyone’s like, “What did we do? We did something.” Jeremy Harty:

There’s always a department going, “Something went wrong. Was it our department? I don’t know.” Sounds messed up-

Cory Bowles:
[crosstalk 00:50:04] everyone sees it.

Jeremy Harty:
Did we have a continuity issue? I don’t know. He didn’t talk to me so I think we’re good. Okay.

Shonna Foster:
Jeremy, do you have an agent? How do you get gigs?

Jeremy Harty:

I do not have an agent. I get all my gigs word of mouth. Luckily, I keep busy just because of that, but I haven’t been out there doing… I don’t sell myself. I don’t peddle my wares. I’ve just been blessed to be able to be working Trailer Park stuff and working on Cory’s stuff and working with people who were with Trailer Park and moved on to other projects at some point and said, “Hey, yeah, let’s bring Jeremy along.”

Jeremy Harty:

But Nova Scotia is hard to get some gigs sometimes. It’s really painful for other editors out here and teams. Especially now with COVID, it’s tough for everyone.

Shonna Foster:

For both of you, is there a genre that you haven’t worked in that you want to? I know Jeremy you’ve done animation shorts.

Jeremy Harty:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). It’s going to make you sound like the biggest wimp ever. I don’t watch horror movies. I don’t think I could ever cut a horror movie. I don’t know. For me, I would like to do more dramatic stuff. I really enjoy the dramatic stuff. I find it sometimes a little bit more restrictive though than comedy. Comedy just have such… There’s so much more we can mess with.

Jeremy Harty:

That’s why Black Cop really worked for me is because even though it was so dramatic, there was a lot of freedom. There’s a lot that could be reshaped and juggled around. It wasn’t so fixated on shot by shot by shot as per his list or the script. It was a little bit more free-form.

Cory Bowles:
I would trust Jeremy with any genre of film. I would trust him with horror. I would trust him with-

Jeremy Harty: No. Horror.

Cory Bowles:
I would trust him do a Hallmark movie. I actually think [crosstalk 00:51:55]-

Jeremy Harty:
Oh, Hallmark movie [crosstalk 00:51:57]

Cory Bowles:

I actually think Jeremy is an absolute gifted editor. I think that he is one of the very few editors, and I’ve worked with really good editors and I love my relationship with everyone, but I think there’s something that Jeremy taps into that I find very rare and I find really special that I think that he has an extremely open mind.

Cory Bowles:

He’s not afraid to go away from his comfort zones and just try something. That’s one thing that I’ve always noticed is that he never approaches it by rule. He approaches it, but this is what’s in front of us, this is what we can work with, and let’s start from there.

Cory Bowles:

I find that that’s great when you have your toolbox and you have your methods and you have your go-to’s. I don’t like to work that way myself. It’s like we have our toolbox, we just go for it. I feel that is one of Jeremy’s strengths is that once he understands what the pacing is or gets an eye for something, then he pulls out stuff that I hoped for, but also wouldn’t have been able to think of. I think he’d be good at anything really.

Jeremy Harty: Thanks, bud.

Cory Bowles:

That’s why he’s on my team.

Jeremy Harty:
Cory loves me so much he named his dog Jeremy.

Cory Bowles:
Well, her name is Peanut.

Jeremy Harty: Oh, damn.

Cory Bowles:
She’s named after Peanut [inaudible 00:53:15], Shannon.

Jeremy Harty: I don’t know.

Cory Bowles:
Actually, a choreographer I love so very much.

Jeremy Harty:
Okay. Maybe your next dog, right?

Cory Bowles:
Maybe, yeah, my fish. Maybe.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. I have to say over my career I’ve been very blessed to work with people that are very creative types and are kind of on the fringe, not that mainstream. I think that’s helped me mold myself into something where I am now, but I definitely can’t do horror. I don’t think I can do horror. I could maybe do a slasher, but not like the jump scares.

Jeremy Harty:

I don’t know. I’d be probably curled up in a ball in the edit suite crying after seeing some of the footage. I don’t know. Maybe it’s just all in my head because I haven’t been forced to do that.

Cory Bowles:
[crosstalk 00:54:01] to trigger something then, hey, don’t ever do horror.

Jeremy Harty:

But, yeah. But comedy and drama and even maybe action, stuff like that. I think I could do a half decent job. Just haven’t had that many opportunities. I don’t know if Cory and I have done anything really action driven. Maybe the lightsaber battle between Leahy and Ricky.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. No. I mean besides those little things like, no. I mean because most of my stuff is satire drama and it has a bit of comedy, but we’ve… No. Not really, but I also, again, like it would just be… I would just expect it of you, because we will be doing it. It’s like, if I’m doing an action movie, you’re right, you’re cutting it.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. If I’m there I’m doing it. If I say I’m going to be on the project, I’ll give it 110% and I’ll watch a movie I’ve never heard of before or-

Cory Bowles:

I think it’s safe to say that a lot of people will sort of like you look at a Trailer Park is a sort of mock or a dog or things like that. Like a mock dog or that… That show even is full of action. We explode cars. There’s guns. There’s [crosstalk 00:55:09]-

Jeremy Harty:
Oh, yeah. That’s true.

Cory Bowles:
The only difference is as if a live camera crew was there so, yeah.

Jeremy Harty: Yeah.

Cory Bowles:
Action is timing and energy and pacing. I think that’s something Jeremy is really, really good at, so.

Jeremy Harty:

But that said, I don’t tend to watch my old work, even though like it’s been so many years ago that we worked on Trailer Park and stuff like that. I have re-watched some things and I don’t want to get bogged down into this like, “Oh, I wish I did that.” Now, that I know this, because at the time, that is where I was as a creative type. That’s where my skill set was. That’s where the gear and equipment and technology was.

Jeremy Harty:

I have to live with what that is. It can help mold me to the next stage. Maybe there’s a moment where I go and say, “Oh, yeah. That scene I cut years ago, that really worked.” Maybe that kind of thing we could discuss or do again. I don’t know what else to say.

Shonna Foster:
Well, Andrea’s asking how about documentary? Good question.

Jeremy Harty: Oh, yeah.

Shonna Foster:
Cory, what about you, would you do docs?

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. I mean I think that’s more about what type of things you’d edit. But I personally I’m going to… The way Jeremy is with horror movies, I feel like I’m not sure as much… I’ve wanted to do a couple talks. I’ve been tapping them and I’m afraid I would just ruin everything. I think I would do it, editing wise, if this was an editing question, I think Jeremy would do it well, because he understands story.

Cory Bowles:

I mean which is essentially what doc is. It’s story and engagement and understanding that. I think that’s a whole other art form that as personally as a director or filmmaker, writer even, that’s just a whole different unique beast that I just didn’t… In awe of all the time. Personally, I don’t think I’d be good at it. Maybe I would, I doubt it.

Jeremy Harty:

In my early career I did do some doc stuff. I worked on a series that was for Vision Television maybe, where a bunch of people were on a ship, a tall ship sailing across the world, and that was really one of the first doc style things that was truly doc because they were just documenting what happened on the ship, but I’ve never done like a biopic dock or anything like that.

Jeremy Harty:

Basically, just building the story from whatever is available is what Trailer Park kind of was from the beginning too. It wouldn’t be far stretch for me to jump into doing a doc series or something.

Cory Bowles:

I’d tell you, I would want to do something like McMillions or The Last Dance. Any type of drama doc series, those things are next level. That would be like-

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah, but getting all that footage and access to that archives and stuff, that’s what makes your edit, man. You could be, you really have to have the production team behind you and access to all that to really make those rock.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. Well, I think there’s-

Jeremy Harty: You could do it.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. There’s something to be said too about depending on… I guess I was called recently or last year to do a doc to be part of a doc series of hip-hop. I had a lot of really… That I actually saw. I had a real vision of how I wanted it to be or what I thought I could do with it. That would have been fun. Something like

that I think would have been fun because I would have been able to play with the elements of hip-hop and how that worked.

Cory Bowles:

I think one of the most recent things, our friend, Jason, who really sort of took the dark side of the ring and he has such a childlike mind that he made this incredibly dark series, but had the sort of the mystique and the wonder of what it was like to be a kid watching wrestling. That’s like doc, filmmaking has that sort of blend that’s like a win for me, which [crosstalk 00:59:11]-

Jeremy Harty:

He just knows that content too, right? When you know the subject matter and you’ve lived and breathed it for so long, I think that kind of storytelling just comes so naturally, right? I could see you doing hip-hop from your days back in the hip-hop community.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. We’ll move on.

Jeremy Harty:
All right. Any other questions? I guess not. I must have covered everything in the world.

Shonna Foster:
We’ve covered everything. Everything. We did it in an hour and 20 minutes.

Jeremy Harty: Record-breaking, right?

Cory Bowles:
Are we that long, really?

Jeremy Harty: Yeah. I think so.

Shonna Foster:
This is great. Let’s see if anyone else has any questions. Feel free to pop them into the Q&A chat.

Cory Bowles:

I’m going to say something because I think that Jeremy is such a good resource and I’ll say one thing I really appreciate about him that he does, that he did with Black Cop. I think I told you this Shannon is that he would send me scenes to look at and see what I thought, and they were scenes that he would give to… If you asked if he had worked with assistants, as I guess he has assistants and people he works with at Digiboyz, his company.

Cory Bowles:

He would give them a crack, cutting a version of my scene, a scene in my movie. I would get a version from each of those people and they would have their own crack. He was teaching them as well. They were learning how… I’ve said notes back and do cut, that used elements of each one or we do things like that. I found that was a really… I really strongly believe the mentorship, obviously.

Cory Bowles:

I think that that’s imperative of people in our position that we use that position that we have to be able to share. I feel like we’re in such a constrained time to make this movie that we did in 12 days and we had under a year to get it ready for TIFF. It was just a few months. The fact that he’s going to give that time and that space for them to get those cuts, hear those notes, do all that.

Cory Bowles:

It’s really and I’m all for it too, because I learn as well, because I’m seeing other perspectives as well as ones that we have ourselves. I feel that that’s really important and a really great quality in Jeremy. I think he’s really strong-

Jeremy Harty:

I definitely picked that up by my early days editing and stuff, giving opportunities like first Trailer Park film, the Black and White was cut in a week. We just had 13-hour day straight, but I was given that project because no one else at the company felt comfortable and didn’t really want to jump into it and commit that much time in such a short time to it. I was keen, but mentorship is definitely important.

Jeremy Harty:

I try to take interns from the community college and the other schools locally for a few weeks to get them into our environment and feel comfortable and put them through some paces. I’m not going to shove them in the room and make them paint a wall. I actually give them footage and say go to town. Like here sink a whole bunch of stuff, start cutting the scene, noodle it, and try to go from there, because I don’t have all the answers to every cut.

Jeremy Harty:

Like Cory said, it’s nice to see different people’s perspectives too, because you might get something that you just couldn’t see because there’s just so much footage and you couldn’t process it or wrap your head around. It’s nice to… I want to give them more opportunities and stuff. Right now we don’t really have many opportunities, for me, so, maybe I’ll give them some old projects and tell them to recut Black Cop, the Assistant Editor’s Cut.

Shonna Foster: Let’s do it.

Jeremy Harty:

I don’t know what that would be, man. I mean pretty gnarly I think. They wouldn’t have the elements that Cory put into it or maybe they get married to the cut.

Cory Bowles:

That’s a cool idea. We did a lot of shorts together too. I mean I think that would be really a fun project to be like, “Here’s our footage of our other short. Here’s the 10 tracks and the music we had and here’s the music we use. These are the music tracks like cut it. That’d be kind of fun. I mean, of course, it’s a lot of work though, but-

Jeremy Harty:

I remember decades ago when GarageBand first came out. That put up a whole song and all the elements for the song and let people remaster the song in GarageBand. That’s been done before, but it would be definitely interesting to see the content produced by it. Maybe we’ll do that with Righteous or something or your next film.

Cory Bowles: Yeah.

Shonna Foster:
Speaking of which, we have a question. What’s next? What’s next for both of you?

Jeremy Harty:

Oh, well, my answer’s going to be shorter than Cory’s. I’ll go first, Cory. Right now I don’t know what’s next. I was on a project. It’s on hold for a little bit now. There’s some other things because I’m affiliated with the Trailer Park boys and their web components and stuff that they do, I supervise some of that, putter around on some of their stuff, but there’s nothing really set in stone. So, summer’s almost over and I don’t know what the next gig is.

Cory Bowles:
I’m going to be his agent and try to get him to work.

Jeremy Harty:
Thank you. I need it for now. For sure. But what’s your answer, Cory?

Cory Bowles:

Well, I’m, of course, we were all on hold because of COVID up here in Ontario and Diggstown was delayed for a while. So, now that’s not going in until actually a year from now. Actually, a little earlier, thank you. Yeah. I’m about to do a show called Nurses. I’m about to direct an episode of that. Then, I’ll move on to a new show called Lady Dicks, which is knock on wood if [inaudible 01:04:46] I’ll be going back to Nova Scotia to do something through the winter, otherwise, I just finished another feature that I’ve been working on for a bit and we’re trying to get Aaron and I in the same team.

Cory Bowles:

We’re trying to get the team together to do that. We’ll see how things work as time goes. Now, I actually had another project that was very contained, which now seems to be a good idea with two people. Now, it’s like we’ll see. I was also working on an animation, developing an animation called… Well, it’s called Spacism now, which is like a play on racism, but it was called Maze in Space, but now it’s Spacism.

Jeremy Harty:
That is a project I’ve heard about, how many years now, bud? You got to get it off the ground.

Shonna Foster:
Did you change the title [crosstalk 01:05:32]-

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. It’s maybe 2000… I don’t know, ’10. But I’ve had it for a long time. Yeah. It’s basically, it’s a social commentary in space. It’s a satire, but it’s a cartoon that takes place there. Yeah. Been noodling with that.

Jeremy Harty:
Yes. You chose to change the name, which Shonna asked about.

Shonna Foster: Yeah.

Cory Bowles:
I like Spacism. I think Spacism is a cool name, but-

Jeremy Harty:
Oh, no. I think it’s a good name. It definitely works better I think than the other one for stability.

Cory Bowles:
Probably, yeah. Probably.

Shonna Foster:
We have another question from Andrea. Technically the long distance showing of scenes to Cory for-

Jeremy Harty:
Oh, how did we do the technical side for showing?

Shonna Foster: Yeah.

Jeremy Harty:

This was before Frame.io. Cory could correct me if I’m wrong, but I think at the time I was using Sony Media Share, Sony CI at one point it was branded, where you just dump it out, password protected, and then they could access it or we were using Dropbox. It was one of those two, but now all the shows that I’m working on… Sorry. Was working on, we were using Frame.io.

Jeremy Harty:

We would push out our cuts, the producers and the other writers or whoever else was involved in the process would leave all their notes there and we reimport them into Final Cut, right onto the timeline, and it makes note taking and giving way easier for me, because nothing sucks more than getting four different emails from different people and trying to figure out, one, what they’re talking about because there’s no time code stamp, two, just in general what they’re talking about like they say, “Yeah. Ricky says this line.”

Jeremy Harty:

Okay. Where? You’re searching for it and you got four other people saying, “No. I like that.” You’re like, “Uh.” So who overrules who? But I think we were doing Dropbox, submitting the whole scene, and then you just… Did you call me and we talked about it on the phone most of the time?

Cory Bowles:

Sometimes we’d have a chat and we would chat on Messenger too, by Message or Messenger or whatever it’s called now. I’ll tell you, Andrea, that Jeremy and I have been working remotely for years and when I see years, I mean like a decade. We were figuring out how to do iChat. I used to teach you-

Jeremy Harty: Oh, yeah.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah, man, because [crosstalk 01:07:47]-

Jeremy Harty:
Oh, my god. Yeah.

Cory Bowles:

We were cutting my movie Heart of Rhyme while I was… I’ve finished class. I’d go home. We’d be on iChat and we’d be working remotely like figuring out… You bring up how we share screen and we’d be just doing it that way. I didn’t know that wasn’t a way that you worked so suddenly it’s like when I got to other places like in the Canadian Film Center, it was like I would go home and I’d be like, “Well, there’s no reason why I can’t do this remotely?” Which we would set up, set up with my, the person I was working with there to do the same thing, which wasn’t happening at the time.

Cory Bowles:

It’s been a thing for us to be able to do that and just be able to chat or talk on the phone and see how things work. We were pretty on that ball for 10 years.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. I totally forgot, which is funny, because there’s other things too that one thing, to my own horn. I developed doing dailies that were a podcast, but they’re password protected. You just use iTunes. You had one little link that I’d emailed to each user, and they would access that link and subscribe to the iTunes podcast and all the dailies would just get pushed out right to their phone or their iPad or whatever they were using at the time.

Jeremy Harty:

They could watch the dailies, and at one point, Technicolor, called me up, and they’re like, “How are you doing this? How are you building it into a website?” I’m like, “I don’t know if I want to tell you without getting money.” They’re like, “Ah, don’t worry about…”

Cory Bowles: We’ll figure it out.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah, and they did. They figured it out. They did it differently, but for a time. But, yeah, the iChat video thing was… Yeah. It was just screen sharing and pushing that out to Cory through iChat, so he would see full screen, whatever we were cutting. We’d talk about it. I could scrub through a little bit. It worked really well. Then, at some point it kind of just chunked. It just got chunky and it wasn’t working as well.

Jeremy Harty:

Then, they changed the software a little bit and it was gone. Now, we have Zoom and other systems that took over. That’s how big a nerd I am.

Cory Bowles:
I was thinking back, and again, trying to get a cut to finish a stronger cut [inaudible 01:09:55] we wanted

a better cut. It’s like we would be working on… Yeah, straight through the- Jeremy Harty:

Well, there was a time where I was on set of another series as the data management tech and I was cutting… Was it righteous? Yeah. It was righteous I think at the time. Another short of Cory’s that it was on hold for a long time. Why was it on hold? What was… We were waiting for one shot.

Cory Bowles:

I didn’t get the most important shot in the movie. We were so excited about we did, we forgot to get a single shot of a handshake, which is the actual crucial point of the movie. We shot it in another town 100 kilometers away. We’re never going to get that store again that we shot inside and we were driving home and we were like, “I think we forgot the shot.” They did zillion cuts, and finally, I just shot my brother’s hand. We finally did it. Yeah.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. Cory is like, “Yeah. We’ll get it done. We’ll get it done.” I was on set doing data management stuff, processing footage all day and I brought the footage from that out on set and just started cutting. At one point, I had directors and producers come in and they’re like, “What are you working on?”

Jeremy Harty:

I’m like, “Ah, another short film. Sorry.” I kind of forced Cory’s hand and said, “We’ve got to get this done, man. Seriously, this film has to be done.” It turned out great.

Shonna Foster:

Are these shorts available?

Cory Bowles: Sorry?

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah. Are your shorts available?

Cory Bowles:
some I think are, but most, no. I think-

Jeremy Harty:
If you were smart, you would release them somewhere maybe on YouTube.

Cory Bowles:

Well, there’s a couple, there’s a few of them online, but I am… You know what? I probably should just put a bunch up online like this week and I have a Vimeo, just my name is at Vimeo. I should… Yeah. I’ll just put them up online. They’re done… I mean Righteous was released back in 2014. It’s not like that’s… All those movies are… Some, I think CBC has the rights to one and they still show it once in a while, but I think I’m allowed to drop it out now.

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. You know what? That’s a good idea. I’m dropping out all my shorts this week and there you go.

Jeremy Harty:
You should. You really should, because-

Cory Bowles:
I should say our shorts because we all worked on them, so.

Jeremy Harty:
I didn’t work on all your shorts.

Cory Bowles: Well-

Jeremy Harty:
But I worked on the best ones.

Cory Bowles: Oh.

Jeremy Harty:

Oh, no. There’s some really nice shorts that Cory has never shown me, so I’d be interested to see some of those.

Cory Bowles:
This is true. I was really-

Jeremy Harty:

I don’t know if I ever saw the Heart of Rhyme short. Not the Heart of Rhyme. Sorry. Black Cop short. I don’t know if you ever showed it to me.

Cory Bowles:
Oh, because I was worried you’d judge me, because I edited that.

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah. I think so. I think that’s why you never let me see it.

Cory Bowles: Yeah.

Jeremy Harty:

Which may have been a blessing, it may have been a curse. I don’t know. Maybe I would have been on page one with you like right away, maybe it would have taken a little while for me to fight-

Cory Bowles:
Yeah. I don?t know.

Jeremy Harty:
… through in edit. It’s funny.

Shonna Foster:
Derek is asking where to see Black Cop. I know it’s available on CBC Films.

Cory Bowles:

Yeah. It’s on CBC here. If you’re in Canada, yeah. At CBC Gem right now showing it. It’s also on iTunes I think. It’s like 99 cent rental or something now. It’s on Google Play. It’s on Hulu if you have that. It should still be on Amazon Prime. It’s an Amazon movie so I think it’s there.

Cory Bowles:

It’s not [inaudible 01:13:15] any bell anymore, but I think it’s actually on YouTube Movies now for free right now, I think. It’s a special thing I guess because they’re doing all that. Let’s bring these type of movies back for free for a bit. Yeah. It’s on Apple too. Yeah. I said iTunes, Apple TV, whatever it’s called now. I don’t know. It’s always different.

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, Cory, because Cory didn’t come here I probably wouldn’t have done this, just because I’m so shy of cameras and being in the public eye.

Shonna Foster:
Jeremy, you keep saying you’re shy, but I have yet to witness the shyness.

Jeremy Harty:

This is something my wife’s told me for years. She’s like, “You hate going to social gatherings, but when you’re there, you’re fine.” I’m like, “Yeah. Maybe, but I dread going to it. I dread the concept.” But when I’m in it, I just push through.

Cory Bowles:
Well, Snuffleupagus no more. He’s out. There you go.

Jeremy Harty:
That’s a weird reference, man.

Cory Bowles:
You’re like the invisible letter.

Jeremy Harty:
Yeah, but do people even know who Snuffleupagus is anymore?

Shonna Foster: Yes.

Jeremy Harty:
Our age group, sure.

Cory Bowles:
Everyone knows Snuffleupagus.

Jeremy Harty: Our age.

Cory Bowles:

But I had the editor I was working with at the Canadian Film Center wanted to meet you and you were just nowhere. Because you get to choose your mentors, right? He was like, “Go and talk to Jeremy. I want this guy.” I don’t know what happened, but he just like disappeared.

Jeremy Harty:
He came here to Halifax?

Cory Bowles:

No. No. He wanted to talk to you because he chose you to be his mentor, but you were like MIA somewhere.

Jeremy Harty: When was that?

Cory Bowles:
I don?t know. It was 2013.

Jeremy Harty:
I must have been deep into Trailer Park or something.

Cory Bowles:
You know what? I think you were in the middle of, it was the movie.

Jeremy Harty: Oh.

Cory Bowles: It was in-

Jeremy Harty:

Yeah. Getting into the middle of the film is different than cutting the TV series. Yeah. That’s probably, but I can still meet that person. I still live. I’m alive.

Shonna Foster: He exists.

Cory Bowles: [crosstalk 01:15:05]

Shonna Foster: [inaudible 01:15:05]

Jeremy Harty:
He moved on. He’s on the bigger, better editors out there and hobnob [crosstalk 01:15:13]-

Cory Bowles: [crosstalk 01:15:13]

Jeremy Harty:
I missed out. I missed out.

Cory Bowles: Oh, stop it.

Jeremy Harty: It happens.

Shonna Foster:
Hey. Well, I guess we’ll wrap it up. This was great.

Jeremy Harty:
Thank you very much for-

Shonna Foster: You’re welcome.

Jeremy Harty:
… being the host.

Shonna Foster:
This is my first time doing this.

Jeremy Harty: The moderator.

Shonna Foster: This was fun.

Jeremy Harty:

I think you did lovely, but, again, this is my first time too, so I don’t know. I have no reference, but I’m sure it was great.

Shonna Foster:
Same time next week, Jeremy.

Cory Bowles: It’s awesome.

Jeremy Harty:

Hell no. No. Look at how I’m blushing. That’s how out of my comfort zone I am, but this was way less painful than I thought it would [crosstalk 01:15:47]-

Shonna Foster:
Would you do it live if it was, I don’t know, in a theater or stage?

Jeremy Harty: I’ve talked once.

Cory Bowles:
He did a live chat with me here during TIFF.

Jeremy Harty: Yeah. I did.

Cory Bowles:
For Penshoppe College. It was great. He was awesome too. I think you should [crosstalk 01:16:03]-

Jeremy Harty: I think-

Cory Bowles:
… more. I think it’s important. I think that he has a lot of good and valuable things to say.

Jeremy Harty:

Thanks, bud. Well, you have a lot to say too. You got to make your next film or TV series or short, whatever. Make what makes you happy.

Cory Bowles:
Whatever we’re doing, we’ll be back soon. We’ll be back soon.

Shonna Foster:
Thank you very much for offering me this opportunity, Cory, as well. I appreciate it.

Jeremy Harty:
It was nice to meet you.

Shonna Foster:

It was nice to meet you, Jeremy, and everybody thank you for tuning in. Have a good rest of your evening and-

Jeremy Harty: Bye, everyone.

Shonna Foster: … bye, everyone.

Sarah Taylor:

Thank you so much for joining us today and a big thank you goes to Jeremy, Cory, and Shonna. Special thanks goes to Jane MacRae. This episode was edited by Malcolm Taylor. The main title sound design was created by Jane Tattersall, additional ADR recording by Andrea Rusch. Original music provided by Chad Blain. This episode was mixed and mastered by Tony Bao.

The CCE has been supporting Indspire – an organization that provides funding and scholarships to Indigenous post secondary students. We have a permanent portal on our website at? c? ceditors.ca? or you can donate directly at? ?indspire.ca?. The CCE is taking steps to build a more equitable ecosystem within our industry and we encourage our members to participate in any way they can.

If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends to tune in. ?Til next time I’m your host Sarah Taylor.

[Outtro]
The CCE is a non-profit organization with the goal of bettering the art and science of picture editing. If you wish to become a CCE member please visit our website www.cceditors.ca. Join our great community of Canadian editors for more related info.

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Crédits

Un grand Merci à

Jane MacRae

Karin Elyakim

Hosted and Produced by

Sarah Taylor

Monté par

Malcolm Taylor

Design sonore du générique d'ouverture

Jane Tattersall

ADR Recording by

Andrea Rusch

Mixé et masterisé par

Tony Bao

Musique originale par

Chad Blain

Sponsor Narration by

Paul Winestock

Commandité par

Filet Production Services & Annex Pro/Avid

Catégories
The Editors Cut

Episode 042: In Conversation with Mary Stephen, CCE